In heaven during 1,000 year reign?

[Daniel 11:36]

 "Immortal" simply means that we won't be able to die anymore.

 

Much more than that son 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

15 hours ago, Keras said:

Heaven is where God is.   We cannot go there; John 3:13

That is not what is meant in John 3:13.  You say that you "only present what Scripture says", but what we find is that you interpret it when you present it, and we cannot trust you to present your conclusions as what Scripture says because you twist around to your own purpose!

No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven:

Now the Greek is very specific.  The verb here is in the active voice.  What Jesus is saying is that no one has the capability to ascend to Heaven, because in the past perfect, no one ascended by their own power - because the ACTIVE VOICE determines that the subject DOES the action the verb describes: ascend.

John 3:13 DOES NOT SAY that no one can be taken to Heaven by Jesus - which is what the Rapture would entail. 

You CANNOT, legitimately say "We cannot go there."  THAT IS A COMPLETE MISREPRESENTATION OF JOHN 3:13.

[Keras]

6 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

John 3:13 DOES NOT SAY that no one can be taken to Heaven by Jesus - which is what the Rapture would entail. 

You CANNOT, legitimately say "We cannot go there."  THAT IS A COMPLETE MISREPRESENTATION OF JOHN 3:13.

Pedantics and any making of scripture to what people want it to mean, is seriously wrong.

We know that John 3:13 means exactly what it says from other scriptures:

John 8:21-23 Jesus said: I am going away and where I go you cannot come....

John 7:34 You may seek Me, but you cannot find Me, for where I go you cannot come.

John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them, [Christians] out of this world, but that You keep [protect] them from the evil one.

You, Marcus have completely misrepresented John 3:13 and you do it because of the false 'rapture to heaven' belief that you and many others have fallen for. Satan is so happy that his scheme to fool Christians into thinking they won't have to face tribulation, has been very successful. It makes Christians complacent and unaware of the truth of God's plans, but worse; it makes them twist and misinterpret scripture to suit their false beliefs.

I have posted here and on my website, all the Bible truth of the Prophetic Word about what will happen according to God' plans for the world. And like God told Jeremiah 28:11, they are for our good, not harm.  We should be looking forward with great anticipation for  God to bless us, as He has promised.

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

14 hours ago, Keras said:

You, Marcus have completely misrepresented John 3:13 and you do it because of the false 'rapture to heaven' belief that you and many others have fallen for. Satan is so happy that his scheme to fool Christians into thinking they won't have to face tribulation, has been very successful.

You keras, have completely misrepresented John 3:13 and you do it because of the your campaign to combat what you think is a Satanic conspiracy to foist what you call a false 'rapture to heaven' - while inserting your own thinking that we all to Israel - which is not stated in Scripture.  You misapply Millennium passages for mortal people to the Church in your eschatology.

Again, John 7:34 speaks about the individual's ability to GO to Heaven on his own power.  NOBODY can do that.  That is a true statement by our Lord.

John 3:13 and 7:34 DO NOT say we can never be TAKEN there.

And that is exactly what John 17:15 postulates against.

You CANNOT argue from fact regarding the specific language in which John wrote, which clarifies this concept.  Instead, you attempt to lead the blind, and in this case, astray.

You do not own the "truth" and having a server and paying for a website do not convey authority just because it's on the internet. 

[Keras]

Marcus, you state your opinion that we Christians do NOT go to Israel, to all of the holy Land.

That you are wrong, is plain from the truth that all who remain will be gathered there at Jesus' Return. Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:15-17 

But in Romans 9:24-26, it says that Christians, called by God, will be in the very place, [the holy Land] where they [the Jews] were called 'Not My People', and will be called 'the sons of the Living God.   This will happen BEFORE the Return, as many prophesies say; Ezekiel 34:11-16 says that the Lord will gather His sheep, soon after the Day of cloud and darkness. [the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, that will clear the Land. Deut 32:43]  All those Christians who called out to Him for protection on that Day, Acts 2:21, will travel to and settle into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10, Isaiah 66:15-21, +   Proved by how they are seen there in Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7

Any other scenario simply conflicts with Biblical truth.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

Marcus, you state your opinion that we Christians do NOT go to Israel, to all of the holy Land.

That you are wrong, is plain from the truth that all who remain will be gathered there at Jesus' Return. Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:15-17 

No.  You state YOUR opinion that all Christian DO GO to the Holy Land.

You are WRONG to say that all who will be gathered there citing Matthew 24:31 and 1Th 4:15-17.

NEITHER OF THOSE VERSES MENTION A PLACE.  This is not even close to reality.  To trust what you say Scripture says is to enter into a fantasy state of utter delusion.
 

1 hour ago, Keras said:

 in Romans 9:24-26, it says that Christians, called by God, will be in the very place,

NO IT DOES NOT.

You twist Holy Scripture to suit your own thinking.

Rom 9:19-26 You will say to me then, Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will? On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, Why did you make me like this, will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As He says also in Hosea,

I will call those who were not My people, My people,
And her who was not beloved, beloved.
And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, you are not My people,
There they shall be called sons of the living God.

Now let's look at what real scholars say about this passage:

Paul, continuing the review of God's sovereign activity, presents another problem. If God acts unilaterally, according to his own will and purpose, does this not remove all basis for judgment, since man is not in a position to resist the divine will? Why, then, should man be blamed? In reply, Paul first points out the inappropriateness of the creature talking back to God (v.20) as though he had sufficient wisdom to judge the Almighty. The illustration of the potter and the clay (v.21) shows how ridiculous this is. Two of Israel's prophets had made the same point (Isa 29:16; Jer 18:6). Some interpreters have concluded that Paul has in mind the creation. While it is true that Genesis 2:7 contains the word "formed" which is the same root word as "potter," it is clear that Paul envisions the clay as a "given," and the real problem is what the potter does with the clay, namely, fashioning one type of vessel or another. The apostle is insisting on the right of the potter to make whatever type of vessel he chooses. Those made for "noble purposes" are valuable for their beauty and decorative function, while those made for "common use" are not admired, though they are actually more essential to the household than the other ones. Pharaoh was useful in fulfilling God's purpose. Apart from this, he would not even have appeared on the pages of sacred history.

In v.22 the crucial problem is to interpret correctly the expression "prepared for destruction." Is Paul teaching a double predestination? This is improbable, because he avoids involving God in this case, whereas he is involved in showing mercy to the objects of his mercy (v.23). Furthermore, God's patience in bearing with the objects of his wrath suggests a readiness to receive such on condition of repentance (cf. 2:3, 4; 2 Peter 3:9). So "prepared for destruction" designates a ripeness of sinfulness that points to judgment unless there is a turning to God, yet God is not made responsible for the sinful condition. The preparation for destruction is the work of man, who allows himself to deteriorate in spite of knowledge and conscience.

Presumably, and in view of what follows, when Paul speaks of "the objects of his [God's] wrath" (v.22), he has in mind those in Israel who have remained obdurate in opposing the gospel, yet are still the objects of the divine longsuffering. In contrast to them are "the objects of his mercy" (v.23) in whom God wills to show the riches of his glory (in contrast to his wrath). These, whom he has prepared for glory, include both Jews and Gentiles (v.24), in line with the previous teaching (1:16; 2:10, 11; 3:22) and with the prophetic announcement. The same God who declared to Israel through Amos: "You only have I known of all of the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2) declared through Hosea his freedom to call others to be his people (v.25). In all strictness, this passage from Hosea 2:23 refers to the reversal in Israel's status from being called "not my people" (Hos 1:9) to being restored, but in both Romans 9:25 and 1 Peter 2:10 the application is apparently broadened to include Gentiles, as Romans 2:24 intimates. Gentiles, who are not actually a people but only masses of humanity, are called by the grace of God to a distinctive role--that of being the people of God. This was happening in Paul's day.

The second quotation is from Hosea 1:10, omitting the first half of the verse, which refers to the prophesied increase in the number of the people of Israel. Here also the background is the Lo-ammi prophecy of Hosea 1:9, which is now seen to be revoked when Israel will once again be called "sons of the living God." Since Peter uses the Hosea 2:23 passage as applying to Gentiles, Paul's intimation of a similar application is the more understandable. It is just possible that he does not intend the second passage (Hos 1:10) to apply to Gentiles (though this is by no means certain), in which case by the sequence of the passages he may be giving a hint of something developed in chapter 11--namely, the influx of Gentiles during Israel's temporary rejection, to be followed by the turning of Israel to the Lord in great numbers (11:25-27).~ Expositor's Bible Commentary on Romans 9:19-26.

NONE of what Paul is writing about insists that we will be sent to the land of Israel with the Rapture.  This is the product of your own deluded thinking which twists Scripture around simply because it says "place" and you interject your own opinion and then proceed to lecture us what the truth is.

We are in Heaven in Rev 7:9-17.  Your scenario conflicts with Biblical truth.  Physician heal thyself!

Edited April 23, 2017 by Marcus O'Reillius

[Keras]

2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

We are in Heaven in Rev 7:9-17.  Your scenario conflicts with Biblical truth.  Physician heal thyself!

All of Revelation chapter 7, is describing earthly scenes. Heaven isn't mentioned in that chapter at all. You have just assumed that idea, to suit your false rapture theory.

Your quotes from commentators completely fail to address the Biblical truth of how we Christians are now the Israelites of God and the heirs of His promises to His true believers.  Acts 2:29, Titus 3:4-7

Romans 9:26 plainly states that it will be in the very place where the ancient Israelites were told they were no longer God's people, that His true Christian believers; Will be called the Sons of the Living God.  This conforms with all the OT prophesies saying how the Lord's righteous people will travel to and live in all of the holy Land.  Psalms 37:29       I have interjected nothing into these Words of scripture.

The unbelievable notion of a rapture removal to heaven, is false teaching and will never happen.  Hating me for shooting down your precious beliefs, is just a further indictment to your already serious faults.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Revelation 7 never moves the location of the throne from Heaven to earth.  keras just assumes that idea to suit his false we're-all-Israel theory.

His refutation of accredited scholars completely fails to address the Biblical truth contained in those passages they cite.

keras might have said Romans 9:26 CLEARLY states the "place" will be Israel ~ because it doesn't.  The fact is, is that, as the Expositor's commentators note: it happened during Paul's lifetime after Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

The unbelievable notion that someone can come on here and condemn a majority of normal Christians to adhering to a false teaching when the Rapture is literally written multiple times in Scripture, happens constantly whenever he writes...  The notion that he needs to be shot down, or that anyone takes him seriously enough to even dwell on him enough to "hate" him, belies the fact that what he writes is so unimportant as to be hardly worth considering, much less renting him any space in one's thoughts as they go through the day.  Taking someone else's inventory online?  Well, that's another tactic: the personal attack. 

Praying for your enemies?  That's the Christian response.

Comforting one another that Jesus will save us from the grave, and that there will be those who never taste death?  That's in the Bible: 1Th 4:18.

We need to keep the faith in our rescue before God's coming Wrath, and that includes the Rapture for those fortunate enough to experience it.  For the majority of us, faith is lived one day at a time, even to the point of death if we should ever find ourselves in the Great Tribulation which precedes the Day of the Lord Rapture.

[Keras]

10 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

We need to keep the faith in our rescue before God's coming Wrath, and that includes the Rapture for those fortunate enough to experience it.  For the majority of us, faith is lived one day at a time, even to the point of death if we should ever find ourselves in the Great Tribulation which precedes the Day of the Lord Rapture.

Well, you have sure got this right, Keeping our faith and enduring until the end, is what we must do.

The only people we are told that God will take to heaven in the last days, is the 2 Witnesses. And they will be killed first. 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

That's your opinion keras.
The way I and many others read it: Heaven is our home, where our inheritance is.
And the Two Witnesses are the last to be martyred, right before the end of the one 'seven'.