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In heaven during 1,000 year reign?


bornagain2011

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That's a fine declarative statement there Daniel 11:36; got anything to back it up instead of backing into an interpretation with the assumption that we're not there?

In none of the other verses where Elect or Chosen is used in the New Testament - is Israel being referred to in the passage.

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The elect of Israel will know when the tribulation comes [the 1/3rd]

Other passages of scripture tell of those who will be come believers before, and they will be made immortal .... mostly of the Gentiles and a few related Jews  

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2 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The elect of Israel will know when the tribulation comes [the 1/3rd] 

The third go into the Millennium as the Remnant.  Read Zechariah and Isaiah.

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This they will do

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Well, how will they do it, if they are gathered up shortly after the midpoint abomination?

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They will not be gathered up before .... only those who are either dead in Christ or living at the moment will be gathered up just before the tribulation begins

The Lord is speaking of the future tribulation and in this case Israel

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Ahnngghhh!

This is entirely messed up.

6 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

They will not be gathered up before .... only those who are either dead in Christ or living at the moment will be gathered up just before the tribulation begins

The Lord is speaking of the future tribulation and in this case Israel

Paul's message to the Thessalonians is for us.

We are the ones who remain and are still alive (after the Great Tribulation).

The gathering Paul speaks about is not for natural-borne Israel, but the Elect, those Christians who remain steadfast in their faith.

There is only one gathering from the clouds, mentioned three times in the Bible, by Jesus, by Paul, and by John.

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4 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

They will not be gathered up before .... only those who are either dead in Christ or living at the moment will be gathered up just before the tribulation begins

You are not stating an event laid out in any linear, prophetic narrative, but a conclusion - the hope of a Rapture before the one 'seven', which you call the "tribulation", begins.

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All Christians are not of the Elect

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Shalom, Marcus.

The problem is two-fold: First, you're not using the word "heaven" correctly. The term means "sky."

NT:3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'); perhaps from the same as NT:3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specifically, the Gospel (Christianity):
KJV - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.

The problem with this is found here:

Psalm 139:7-10
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
KJV

God is OMNIPRESENT! He doesn't HAVE an "abode!"

When combined with "meso-" meaning "middle," we get...

NT:3321 mesouraneema (mes-oo-ran'-ay-mah); from a presumed compound of NT:3319 and NT:3772; mid-sky:
KJV - midst of heaven.

This is PRECISELY what this means! Proof? Here it is:

Revelation 19:17-18
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (Greek: mesouraneema), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
KJV

Therefore, BIRDS fly in the "middle of the ouranos" or in the "middle of the sky!"

When combined with "epi" meaning "above," we get (the adjectival form)...

NT:2032 epouranios (ep-oo-ran'-ee-os); from NT:1909 and NT:3772; above the sky:
KJV - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Paul tells us that this is where the sun, moon, and stars exist!

1 Corinthians 15:40-41
40 There are also celestial (Greek: epouraniosbodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
KJV

AND, we are told that even the New Jerusalem is currently a city in this SAME LOCATION!

Hebrews 12:22-24
22 But ye are come (ye are in the process of approaching) unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly (Greek: epouranios) Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
KJV

And, it's the New Jerusalem that has the "streets of gold," the "pearly gates," and the "throne of God and of the Lamb" within it! The New Jerusalem doesn't descend to the New Earth until the earth is made anew after the 1000 years and after the GWTJ.

You KNOW this! And yet, we see people STUBBORNLY sticking to this "heaven = God's abode" nonsense!

That formula, namely,

"first heaven = of clouds,
second heaven = of stars,
third heaven = God's abode,"

isn't biblical! It's a theological OPINION! Somebody invented that who-knows-when, and it hasn't gone away (when it really SHOULD)!

The second problem is not taking the Bible literally when it talks about "Zion" and "Jerusalem" and the "Temple!" Instead, you see these things as places in "Heaven" instead of right here on this earth! These are REAL places within the State of Israel, and the Temple will indeed be rebuilt right here on earth!

Also, a "soul" is an "air-breather." If these people seen in Revelation are "souls," then they've already been resurrected!

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