In heaven during 1,000 year reign?

[Guest]

After the Rapture, which includes the Millennium, the Church will be in the New Jerusalem. Christ will reign here on Earth with those left here, all of whom will be saved having survived the Tribulation. They will continue to have children, some who will reject Christ towards the end of the Millennium. These children who reject Christ will be those that Satan gathers for the final battle with GOD after he is released from his chains at the end of the Millennium. That is how understand it to be.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:12 PM, bornagain2011 said:

We have some friends who after doing some Bible studies now believe that we will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign and that New Jerusalem is for the Jews not His church. 

I showed them scripture showing that Jesus reigns on earth with us during 1,000 years, but they said Jesus is omnipresent so He is up in heaven with us and ruling down on earth with the Jews that came out of the tribulation alive.

It doesn't sound like anything I've learned from the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

Mobility in Death:
On the day Jesus was crucified, He said to the thief on His Right: "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Lk 23:43) NASB
Beforehand though, Jesus taught about the afterlife in the story (not a parable) about the beggar Lazarus about Paradise (the Bosom of Abraham) and Hades (the hot, dry place): "And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us." (Lk 16:26)

Was Jesus likewise stationed in Paradise without being able to leave it?  No.  "...in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison," (1Pe 3:19)

Mobility after Resurrection:
After Jesus was Resurrected from the grave, He went to the Father, proving that where He went with the thief on His Right, Paradise, or the Bosom of Abraham, is not in the third Heaven with the presence of the Father.  "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father," (Jn 20:17)
After Jesus saw the Father (read Zechariah 3:1-8), Jesus was not confined to Heaven, but "popped" in and out of their existence several times.

• After that, He appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country. They went away and reported it to the others, but they did not believe them either. (Mk 16:12)
• And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. (Lk 24:13-15)
• So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut  where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be with you." (Jn 20:19)
• After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you." (Jn 20:26)
• After these things Jesus manifested Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, (Jn 21:1)
• To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days." (Acts 1:3)

Was Jesus confined to Heaven after He saw the Father? No.
Was Jesus confined to the earth after He appeared to the Eleven?  No.

Mobility after His Return:
When Jesus Comes Again on the Day of the Lord, many people teach that He does not touch the Earth based solely on 1Th 4:16-17.  However, in Zechariah 14:4 and Revelation 14:1, Scripture has Him standing on the earth on the Day of the Lord in Zechariah and before the same Harvest from the clouds as 1Th 4:17 as follows in Revelation chapter 14.

Concerning the 144,000 who are mustered from the earth before the Harvest - the FirstFruits - they are to follow the Lamb "wherever He goes". (Rev 14:4)

Is Jesus tied to the earth after He Returns?
So far the evidence is no.
Some here are dead-set that Jesus is confined to Jerusalem to rule the earth.  However two things work against that argument:
We rule in His Stead, and not all of us are required to do that, and
Jesus taught in a parable that Kings can rule their land from afar in the parable of the vineyard and the son.
____________________________________________

I put it to you, quite aside from the acrimonious arguments to the contrary from Retrobyter and keras, that we are in Heaven for the Millennium.

That Jesus is quite capable of translating between the Third Heaven of the Father's Presence where we are assembled after the Rapture (Rev 7:9-17) and the earth to Heaven, and He can then, later, go out at the end of the one 'seven' to the final battle at Armageddon.

While He does "dwell" on the earth during the Millennium as Ezekiel 37:27; 43:7, 9 say, and all the people will see Him when they are to come to Jerusalem the two times as is laid out in the latter books of Ezekiel, the Feast of Passover, and the Feast of Atonement - nowhere does it dictate that Jesus is chained to the earth as His Kingdom is not limited to the earth, existing now, and being quite apart from the earth at this present moment, but rather that when the door posts of the earthly Temple and the Heavenly Temple which is its template are set next to each other (Eze 43:8) - that Jesus can easily move from one place to the other at His Will.

[Daniel 11:36]

He can do just that ..... move from one place to another .... always has been able to do this from the beginning

[Limey_Bob]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:12 PM, bornagain2011 said:

We have some friends who after doing some Bible studies now believe that we will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign and that New Jerusalem is for the Jews not His church. 

I showed them scripture showing that Jesus reigns on earth with us during 1,000 years, but they said Jesus is omnipresent so He is up in heaven with us and ruling down on earth with the Jews that came out of the tribulation alive.

It doesn't sound like anything I've learned from the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

Bornagain2011, I think that you are referring to me sir. You are also misrepresaenting what I actually said and my position. Look will you  debate me on this one on one, if so, please e-mail me. My YouTube channel is Christian Comedy Channel, 95% of my videos give my name and e-mail at the start. I agree that what you are saying about me and my beliefs sounds rediculous, however, you are simply refuting a straw man and not my actual claims.

[Serving]

On 01/04/2017 at 9:51 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Mobility in Death:
On the day Jesus was crucified, He said to the thief on His Right: "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Lk 23:43) NASB
Beforehand though, Jesus taught about the afterlife in the story (not a parable) about the beggar Lazarus about Paradise (the Bosom of Abraham) and Hades (the hot, dry place): "And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us." (Lk 16:26)

Was Jesus likewise stationed in Paradise without being able to leave it?  No.  "...in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison," (1Pe 3:19)

Mobility after Resurrection:
After Jesus was Resurrected from the grave, He went to the Father, proving that where He went with the thief on His Right, Paradise, or the Bosom of Abraham, is not in the third Heaven with the presence of the Father.  "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father," (Jn 20:17)
After Jesus saw the Father (read Zechariah 3:1-8), Jesus was not confined to Heaven, but "popped" in and out of their existence several times.

• After that, He appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country. They went away and reported it to the others, but they did not believe them either. (Mk 16:12)
• And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. (Lk 24:13-15)
• So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut  where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be with you." (Jn 20:19)
• After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you." (Jn 20:26)
• After these things Jesus manifested Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, (Jn 21:1)
• To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days." (Acts 1:3)

Was Jesus confined to Heaven after He saw the Father? No.
Was Jesus confined to the earth after He appeared to the Eleven?  No.

Mobility after His Return:
When Jesus Comes Again on the Day of the Lord, many people teach that He does not touch the Earth based solely on 1Th 4:16-17.  However, in Zechariah 14:4 and Revelation 14:1, Scripture has Him standing on the earth on the Day of the Lord in Zechariah and before the same Harvest from the clouds as 1Th 4:17 as follows in Revelation chapter 14.

Concerning the 144,000 who are mustered from the earth before the Harvest - the FirstFruits - they are to follow the Lamb "wherever He goes". (Rev 14:4)

Is Jesus tied to the earth after He Returns?
So far the evidence is no.
Some here are dead-set that Jesus is confined to Jerusalem to rule the earth.  However two things work against that argument:
We rule in His Stead, and not all of us are required to do that, and
Jesus taught in a parable that Kings can rule their land from afar in the parable of the vineyard and the son.
____________________________________________

I put it to you, quite aside from the acrimonious arguments to the contrary from Retrobyter and keras, that we are in Heaven for the Millennium.

That Jesus is quite capable of translating between the Third Heaven of the Father's Presence where we are assembled after the Rapture (Rev 7:9-17) and the earth to Heaven, and He can then, later, go out at the end of the one 'seven' to the final battle at Armageddon.

While He does "dwell" on the earth during the Millennium as Ezekiel 37:27; 43:7, 9 say, and all the people will see Him when they are to come to Jerusalem the two times as is laid out in the latter books of Ezekiel, the Feast of Passover, and the Feast of Atonement - nowhere does it dictate that Jesus is chained to the earth as His Kingdom is not limited to the earth, existing now, and being quite apart from the earth at this present moment, but rather that when the door posts of the earthly Temple and the Heavenly Temple which is its template are set next to each other (Eze 43:8) - that Jesus can easily move from one place to the other at His Will.

Marcus, the Lazarus story is just a parable it is not an actual event.

Want to know how we know this?

Easy, HOW can the rich man be in this place when his JUDGEMENT has NOT yet been passed?

Because THAT JUDGEMENT does not occur until AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ when ALL the dead are RAISED and JUDGED and THEN given their PUNISHMENT.

HOW can he be punished BEFORE his JUDGEMENT is passed?

He can NOT, therefore, it is merely a parable which if you read carefully, was actually AIMED at the Pharisees who were mocking His teachings.

P.S .. Jesus did NOT go to paradise that same day, HE was in the GRAVE (hell/hades/sheol all mean the GRAVE), and when one dies TIME stands STILL for the deceased, when one is awakened, to THEM, it is the SAME DAY of their death even though thousands of years may have passed, and because time stood STILL on the day of the thief's death, when he gets awoken, to him, it is as though it is that same day that Christ spoke to him on the cross because for him, NO TIME HAS PASSED since Christ uttered those words to him, to him it is as the SAME DAY.

That is the answer to what Christ spoke to the thief.

[Limey_Bob]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:12 PM, bornagain2011 said:

We have some friends who after doing some Bible studies now believe that we will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign and that New Jerusalem is for the Jews not His church. 

I showed them scripture showing that Jesus reigns on earth with us during 1,000 years, but they said Jesus is omnipresent so He is up in heaven with us and ruling down on earth with the Jews that came out of the tribulation alive.

It doesn't sound like anything I've learned from the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

Bornagain 2011, will you debate me one on one re our differences of opinion? We would need to agree a debate title, you can contact me via e-mail, my videos on my YouTube channel (Christian Comedy Channel) have my name and e-mail address on 95% of all videos at the start.

[Limey_Bob]

On 3/31/2017 at 3:50 AM, OneLight said:

I don't mean to come against anyone who likes to discuss end times, as I still do, but I no longer spend a lot of my time digging through what is a mystery.  Sorry to jump in and dampen the discussion.  I should of looked at where the question was posted before I answered.

This thread is a dig at me, and I am the person implied in post one. I have offered to debate one on one those differing from myself in eschatology, yet thus far, nobody has had the guts to accept my offer of a debate. Instead they prefer to gripe about me, but they will not debate in a fair one on one format.

[enoob57]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, OneLight said:

Yes, in His time, not our time.  I place my trust in His time far more than I do my ability, or any other persons ability, to understand prophecy.  Ever since the late 70's until a few years ago, I spent many hours trying to figure out what prophecy really means and whenever I thought I had it right, something else happened in life that made me step back and re-chart everything.  I am not discouraging those who want to know, just pointing out that spending all of ones time trying to figure it out is taking their eyes off His commandment to make disciples of all nations.  Seems people have stopped trying to show their neighbor who Jesus is and why He came.

In all honesty, and I believe you will agree, nobody will know if they are correct until prophecy is fulfilled. 

I agree with the caution as OneLight... itchy ears and preoccupation with tomorrow to the point of disobedience to this

Matthew 6:34 (KJV)

[34] Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

"This thread is a dig at me, and I am the person implied in post one. I have offered to debate one on one those differing from myself in eschatology, yet thus far, nobody has had the guts to accept my offer of a debate. Instead they prefer to gripe about me, but they will not debate in a fair one on one format."

 

I will debate .... you start

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 3/30/2017 at 1:12 PM, bornagain2011 said:

We have some friends who after doing some Bible studies now believe that we will be in heaven with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign and that New Jerusalem is for the Jews not His church. 

I showed them scripture showing that Jesus reigns on earth with us during 1,000 years, but they said Jesus is omnipresent so He is up in heaven with us and ruling down on earth with the Jews that came out of the tribulation alive.

It doesn't sound like anything I've learned from the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

No. Scripture is plenty clear that We will rule with Him ON EARTH.