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HAZARD

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Guest Judas Machabeus
On 2017-04-02 at 5:57 PM, HAZARD said:

Scripture says it was the serpent;

Gen 3:1, Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,1 hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The serpent was cursed because he was the first to yield to Satan to cause the fall of man. The devil was too wise to begin with the very head of creation. He began instead with the highest of animal creation, who lived with Adam and Eve before the fall. He made a league with Lucifer and started opposition to God's Word, which has been Satan's sphere of activity ever since.

It is written, the serpent was cursed above all creatures and was to go upon his belly and eat dust all his days (Isa. 65:25).

He was deprived of walking upright and of his speech and became a poisonous, loathsome creature, despised by man whom he had betrayed and deceived (2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14).

2 Cor. 11: 3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

1 Tim. 2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The curse upon the serpent continues upon all literal snakes even in the Millennium when it is removed from all other animals (Isa. 65:25). If a literal serpent was not involved in the fall of man, why should it be cursed above all creatures, and the curse not removed during the Millennium?

Eve was acquainted with the serpent in the garden, but she knew nothing of the devil; so if a strange person had appeared to her she would have been afraid to converse with him.

I missed this reply. 

No where is this supported by scripture. 

"The serpent was cursed because he was the first to yield to Satan to cause the fall of man. The devil was too wise to begin with the very head of creation. He began instead with the highest of animal creation, who lived with Adam and Eve before the fall. He made a league with Lucifer and started opposition to God's Word, which has been Satan's sphere of activity ever since."

The scripture you quote does not say what you claim it does. 

He was deprived of walking upright and of his speech and became a poisonous, loathsome creature, despised by man whom he had betrayed and deceived (2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14).

 

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13 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I missed this reply. 

No where is this supported by scripture. 

"The serpent was cursed because he was the first to yield to Satan to cause the fall of man. The devil was too wise to begin with the very head of creation. He began instead with the highest of animal creation, who lived with Adam and Eve before the fall. He made a league with Lucifer and started opposition to God's Word, which has been Satan's sphere of activity ever since."

The scripture you quote does not say what you claim it does. 

He was deprived of walking upright and of his speech and became a poisonous, loathsome creature, despised by man whom he had betrayed and deceived (2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14).

 

You not only missed the reply, you missed the whole point of it.

Genesis 3:1, Now the serpent was more subtil than any BEAST of the field which the Lord God HAD MADE. And he said unto the woman, Yea,1 hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 


Genesis 3:2, And the woman said unto the serpent,  We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:


Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Genesis 3:13, And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent  beguiled me, and I did eat.


Gen esis3:14, And the LORD God said unto the serpent,  Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

(Satan is not and never was a BEAST of the field which the Lord God HAD MADE.) and, its the serpent who will remain cursed even during the Millennium when the curse is lifted on all other animals;  Genesis 3:14, And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

When the curse is lifted on all other animals during the Millennium, the serpent 's curse will remain;

Isiah 65: 25, The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat.  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

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On March 31, 2017 at 6:18 PM, HAZARD said:

Many times I have wondered when seeing snakes in the wild and then seeing them handled and sometimes loved by men as pets, but hated by me. I kill them when ever I come across any. I remember how the snake once walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the garden and then made a pact with Satan to deceive man.

I often wonder, seeing the snake was able to walk and talk, attributes taken away from him by God because of what he did, and the fact that the snake will remain cursed even during the Millennium when the curse is removed from all other animals.

Do snakes, although now not able to walk and talk as before the fall, do they still have the ability to think, reason, make decisions, and even hate mankind as Satan does? This is not the first time something like this has happened. Thoughts anyone?

Video footage shows gruesome moment missing man is cut out of giant python’s body
March 30, 20171:27pm.

WARNING: VERY Graphic content and images.

SHOCKING details are coming to light over the discovery of a man swallowed by a giant reticulated python.
A man who went missing in a remote Indonesian village on the island of West Sulawesi on Sunday night has been found inside a seven-metre-long python.
Footage released by Viral Press shows the horrifying moment 25-year-old harvester Akbar Salubiro’s body was reportedly cut out of the giant snake’s belly.
“This probably attacked from behind,” a villager told Tribun Timur.
The Timur said the snake weighed 158 kilograms, almost four times the body weight of its victim.

 

*** The video it too graphic for this site.  I removed the link.  OneLight ***

I too hate snakes - they remind me of the evil one.  I don't know about them thinking and reasoning, but a certain amount of thinking goes into their quest for food, and avoidance of people.  I read in one of Mark Bubeck's books, that a man oppressed by satan sometimes made him hiss like a snake.  That's pretty sinister.

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On 3/31/2017 at 6:18 PM, HAZARD said:

Many times I have wondered when seeing snakes in the wild and then seeing them handled and sometimes loved by men as pets, but hated by me. I kill them when ever I come across any. I remember how the snake once walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the garden and then made a pact with Satan to deceive man.

I often wonder, seeing the snake was able to walk and talk, attributes taken away from him by God because of what he did,  

Before the fall of man - snakes could walk, could fly but could not talk. They were part of the animal world just like birds and horses etc. The same with donkeys -- including Balaam's donkey. The donkey's of Balaam's day could not talk - but they could walk. It is a supernatural event that you are seeing in the case of both the snake in Eden and Balaam's donkey. The snake claimed that eating from the tree of knowledge caused it to instantly "evolve" to the point of having speech. The claim was that Eve would also evolve to a higher plane of existence if she would eat - and it would do far more for her than it had done for the snake.

That was of course Satan using the snake as his medium to converse with Eve without alarming her -- without giving away the fact that this was the fallen angel she had been warned about. But Adam was not fooled when Eve went to him carrying the fruit of the forbidden tree. He knew full well (deduced from Eve's story to him) what Eve had done and that the serpent was in fact the fallen angel Lucifer.  But Adam was the husband of Eve and in some sense "protector" -- he adopted a "go down with the ship" frame of mind -- and at the same time hoped that God's warning might just be a bluff and that God would not visit so severe a punishment on them for simply eating the forbidden fruit... for "sin".

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19 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Before the fall of man - snakes could walk, could fly but could not talk. They were part of the animal world just like birds and horses etc. The same with donkeys -- including Balaam's donkey. The donkey's of Balaam's day could not talk - but they could walk. It is a supernatural event that you are seeing in the case of both the snake in Eden and Balaam's donkey. The snake claimed that eating from the tree of knowledge caused it to instantly "evolve" to the point of having speech. The claim was that Eve would also evolve to a higher plane of existence if she would eat - and it would do far more for her than it had done for the snake.

That was of course Satan using the snake as his medium to converse with Eve without alarming her -- without giving away the fact that this was the fallen angel she had been warned about. But Adam was not fooled when Eve went to him carrying the fruit of the forbidden tree. He knew full well (deduced from Eve's story to him) what Eve had done and that the serpent was in fact the fallen angel Lucifer.  But Adam was the husband of Eve and in some sense "protector" -- he adopted a "go down with the ship" frame of mind -- and at the same time hoped that God's warning might just be a bluff and that God would not visit so severe a punishment on them for simply eating the forbidden fruit... for "sin".

I prefer to believe what the Scriptures teach. There is not one Scripture in the entire Bible that I know of, that teaches serpents could, or to this day, can fly? The Bible does say the Serpent could walk and also talk. Satan made a pact with the serpent to steal Adams rule over the Earth. A literal walking, talking serpent was involved as a tool by Satan, otherwise it would be unjust of God to curse it.  The serpent no doubt agreed with Satan and decided with Satan that this was the best way to cause the fall of man.

There was nothing said at first by the serpent to awaken any suspicion, so Eve knew the serpent and the fact that it could communicate with her. There was no shock in any moral sense, merely a sly insinuation calculated to excite a natural curiosity. Then came the direct lie, combined with just enough truth to give it plausibility (v 4-5).

Gensis 3:1, Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman,  Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?


Genesis 3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:


Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman,  Ye shall not surely die:

 

Regarding Numbers 22:28, And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

It was the Lord who opened the donkeys mouth, an entirely different scenario. No where else in Scripture do animals speak to human beings.

The curse, the loss of speech and walking, upon the serpent continues upon all literal snakes to this day and will continue on even in the Millennium when the curse is removed from all other animals (Isa. 65:25). If a literal walking, speaking serpent was not involved in the fall of man, why should it be cursed above all creatures, and the curse not removed during the Millennium?

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Guest Judas Machabeus
23 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Satan made a pact with the serpent to steal Adams rule over the Earth

That's your own interpretation. You start off by saying now where in the bible does it say that snakes can fly. While it doesnt say that the Snake made a pact with Satan either. 

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23 hours ago, HAZARD said:

I prefer to believe what the Scriptures teach. There is not one Scripture in the entire Bible that I know of, that teaches serpents could, or to this day, can fly? The Bible does say the Serpent could walk and also talk. Satan made a pact with the serpent to steal Adams rule over the Earth.[/quote]""\

No text that I know of says that "Satan made a pact with the serpent" about anything much less that the serpent "Agreed to help steal Adam's rule".

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A literal walking, talking serpent was involved as a tool by Satan,

 

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otherwise it would be unjust of God to curse it.

Satan is the one speaking in Genesis --

Sheep were used as animal sacrifices... this is not a question of "unjust towards sheep" - they were also used for food... and again not a case of "unjust toward sheep". Nor did sheep "agree to it"

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 The serpent no doubt agreed with Satan and decided with Satan that this was the best way to cause the fall of man.

The sheep did not "agree" to be food or agree to be animal sacrifices. And the snake made no agreement with Satan.

The "compelling" detail in the serpent's argument is the very fact that serpents could not talk and yet this fruit-eating serpent in the forbidden tree WAS talking and making the case with Eve that just as it was evolved after eating of the tree - so would she evolve to "be like God"

 

Revelation 12 says it is Satan that is "the serpent of old" 

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Edited by BobRyan
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1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

That's your own interpretation. You start off by saying now where in the bible does it say that snakes can fly. While it doesnt say that the Snake made a pact with Satan either. 

Not my interpretation or opinion at all. I'll go with what the Word of God says, good enough for me any day.

The serpent never came up with the idea to try and dupe Adam and Eve into sinning? But it is"CLEARLY" recorded in the Word of God that the serpent spoke!

Genesis 3:1, Now the serpent was more subtil than any BEAST of the field which the Lord God HAD MADE. And he said unto the woman, Yea,1 hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 

And knowing God said if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they would surely die, the serpent accused of God lying by saying;

Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Because there is no other place in Scripture that reveals Satan or demons can cause animals to speak, it's just common sense to believe the Word of God that the serpent could speak.

Answer me this. If it was not a serpent that spoke, then why is the curse not removed from serpents during the millennium, when the curse is removed from all other animals?

Isaiah 65:25, The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpents meat.  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

God placed Adam in the Garden to tend it and warned Adam not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

The serpent tempts Eve to eat of the Tree, but Eve tells the serpent what God had said. The serpent replied that she would not surely die, and that if she eats the fruit of the tree "then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." 

Eve ate the fruit and gave it to Adam and he also ate. God, who was walking in the Garden, finds out and to prevent Adam and Eve from eating the fruit of the Tree of Life and living forever, they are banished from the Garden and God posts an angelic guard. The snake is punished for its role in the fall by being made to crawl on its belly in the dust.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

That's your own interpretation. You start off by saying now where in the bible does it say that snakes can fly. While it doesnt say that the Snake made a pact with Satan either. 

No Interpretation at all. The serpent must have agreed with Satan's plan to tray and usurp Adams authority on the Earth. If one looks at the scenario Logically, and how it played out, I'm sure the serpent never came up with the idea of causing Adam and Eve to sin and set Satan up to rule the Earth?

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59 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

No text that I know of says that "Satan made a pact with the serpent" about anything much less that the serpent "Agreed to help steal Adam's rule".

Satan is the one speaking in Genesis --

Sheep were used as animal sacrifices... this is not a question of "unjust towards sheep" - they were also used for food... and again not a case of "unjust toward sheep". Nor did sheep "agree to it"

The sheep did not "agree" to be food or agree to be animal sacrifices. And the snake made no agreement with Satan.

The "compelling" detail in the serpent's argument is the very fact that serpents could not talk and yet this fruit-eating serpent in the forbidden tree WAS talking and making the case with Eve that just as it was evolved after eating of the tree - so would she evolve to "be like God"

 

Revelation 12 says it is Satan that is "the serpent of old" 

 

Yes he's calleda serpent "the great dragon," "that old serpent,"  "the Devil, and Satan." A liar, and the father of lies, a murderer," Take your pick. 

The Word, who now is Jesus is called a rock, a door, our saviour, our redeemer, Lord of Lords and king of kings, take your pick 

Satan used the serpent knowing Eve would not have been frightened of it because it was a beast of the field, and Adam had named all the animals and she would have been familiar with it. Had Satan shown himself she would have been frightened for she had not seen or know him at all.

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