ravindran Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said: No you cannot lose your salvation. There are some who point to passages like.... 1 Timothy 1:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in context Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. .....and assume that means that one can lose their salvation. But that is not so. Christians can fall into sin and walk away from the faith but God punishes them (as shown in the above passage) even to the point of death if necessary but that does not mean they lose their salvation. We are PROMISED eternal life. To deny this by saying we can lose our salvation is to suggest God is a liar or capricious. At worst it shows a lack of understanding of scripture. https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html Sister, there is no disagreement here. I will stand by your side to proclaim no one can lose Salvation. I just quoted what Arminians would generally believe. The point is, doesn't mean Arminians can lose their Salvation just because they think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, ravindran said: Sister, there is no disagreement here. I will stand by your side to proclaim no one can lose Salvation. I just quoted what Arminians would generally believe. The point is, doesn't mean Arminians can lose their Salvation just because they think so! Ah ok sorry, misunderstood you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, ravindran said: I see lot of self answered questions You are right, there is no place in heaven for idolaters. Similarly, there is no place in heaven for any sinner. Because no unholy thing can be in the presence of God. When it says there is no place for such people, it means what they are identified by. Every believer sins. Everyone is a sinner. But God does not see our sins, instead righteousness imputed through Jesus Christ. That is exactly the same reason I believe there are many Catholics who are truly saved and will spend eternity with us! I love John MacArthur, wonderful preacher and very passionate about Word of God. I do disagree with him on many areas and this would be one of them. There is no harm in that. Yeah, when I first got saved back in the 1970s, someone turned me onto John McArthur and I think I purchased 300+ tapes of his sermons on a multitude of topics. I especially love how he goes through a book from the Bible, like Romans. He might take 4 sermons to cover 2 verses in Romans. Lol. I love detail. Again, what you and angels4u are saying here is probably where I will end up in my thinking. However, I feel very uncomfortable thinking about someone who is both a God worshipper and an idol worshipper. Like you said though- that could be me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, Spock said: Angels4u, " I know that all that Mary worship is idolotry.. I believe only God knows the hear and is our Judge,we can never say if somebody who does believe in Jesus and accept Him as his Savior is lost ,we're in no position to judge.. I hope this will help you Spock?" yes it does angel. I was 98% certain Mary veneration was IDOLATRY but now I am 100% certain it is. However, your second statement that it is only up to God, who knows the heart, to judge ones faith is probably the safest position for me to take. I know John McArthur feels very strongly that Catholics who hold to this Mary veneration are NOT believers in Christ, but I don't feel as confident in saying that. If my brother says he trusts in only Christ's sacrifice for his sins, I probably should not be quick to say his Mary veneration has negated his faith/testimony. I know it is not easy to say this, but I guess it is possible to be both a God worshipper and an idol worshipper simulateously. God can figure all that out, not me. But to be honest, I feel very uncomfortable saying that. Yes, you did help. Just talking about this is helping me because that long conversation I had with my brother was intense. He reminded me that Pope Pius IX in 1854 said "anyone who doesn't believe these doctrines regarding Mary is cursed and will be damned." (Naturally my response was pretty cutting, "Do you think I care about what some dead Pope thinks about me or Mother Mary?" ) So, here I am telling my brother, "your idolatry may prevent you from entering the kingdom..." while he is telling me, "your lack of belief in the Blessed Mother Mary may keep you from entering the Kimgdom...." wow! Crazy! Hi Spock,We have a neighbour who is very much in the Mariology,she knows I'm a Christian and she loves to talk to me about the Lord,she just LOVES to talk about God and who am I to say she's not saved because of her adoring and praying to Mary? I believe many RC sincerely just don't know any better and it's difficult for them to let go of tradition , I know she is saved ! What you really should do ,is faithfully prayer for your brother to understand the Bible ,pray that the Holy Spirit will give him the discernment he need of breaking with tradition and to look for a relationship with his Savior! Praying for your brother.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
existential mabel Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 151 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,149 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 2,066 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spock said: Thank you for this response. This is exactly what I was looking for. Yeah! I will be honest here- your answer is what I believe or maybe what I want to believe. However, in my study of what constitutes IDOLATRY and what does think of people who are IDOLATERS often, it is not good. The one brother mentioned in Revelation 21 that there is no place for "an idolater" in the new kingdom. What does that mean? Someone else mentioned believing all these things about Mary is not really worshipping her. Is that true? How many millions of people pray "to Mary" for her grace? How is this not worship when you are praying to her? Who can receive prayer? God, right? Praying to a dead person, be it Mary or some saint, seems like is replacing what is meant for only God. Do you agree with this? So, how do you think God feels about this? The first commandment says he is a jealous God and that thou shall have no false idols before you. Not to mention the countless millions of people running to and fro throughout the world visiting places where supposedly Mary showed up. What do you call this? Seems like worship to me. How do you think God in Heaven looking down is processing all of this? So, back to brother. You feel this should not affect his salvation....I hope you are right. John McArthur doesn't feel that way, but to him, just about everything is black and white with very little gray in between. Even though I don't agree with every inference/interpretation/application he makes, I do know he is a man who cares only about what the Bible says. I listen to what he says very closely. But, I do like what you said too, and it seems to make sense to me- in a way, we all have our idols that perhaps we use to replace God. It's just not as black and white as McArthur sees it, and there is the rub. Thanks again, spock Quote Someone else mentioned believing all these things about Mary is not really worshipping her. ah i used to have a statue of the buddha and went to (not many but nevertheless) a few "services" cant think of the proper terminology. and everyone would prostrate out on the floor in front of a huge statue of the buddha. oh but of course they werent worshipping the buddha. and burnt incense was always offered ..cough.. ok so i think why the ritual? why the statue? Quote Not to mention the countless millions of people running to and fro throughout the world visiting places where supposedly Mary showed up. What do you call this? over the pond people pay to go and be on the set of emmerdale a long running soap. so that they can be in awe of the actors lol! mind you a good money spin. Edited April 3, 2017 by existential mabel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, angels4u said: Hi Spock,We have a neighbour who is very much in the Mariology,she knows I'm a Christian and she loves to talk to me about the Lord,she just LOVES to talk about God and who am I to say she's not saved because of her adoring and praying to Mary? I believe many RC sincerely just don't know any better and it's difficult for them to let go of tradition , I know she is saved ! What you really should do ,is faithfully prayer for your brother to understand the Bible ,pray that the Holy Spirit will give him the discernment he need of breaking with tradition and to look for a relationship with his Savior! Praying for your brother.. Your friend sounds just like my brother. No surprise, right? Thanks for your prayers for Fred. I'm not sure he will want to continue to have our weekly Bible study after this past week, but we shall see. This whole Mary thing has bummed me out quite a bit. I was hoping the Word of God would both convict and enlighten my dear brother, causing him to confess and repent from his Mary idolatry. Not even close. I wonder how God feels about all of this? (Fred times millions). I hope he is much more patient and understanding than I am. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, existential mabel said: ah i used to have a statue of the buddha and went to (not many but nevertheless) a few "services" cant think of the proper terminology. and everyone would prostrate out on the floor in front of a huge statue of the buddha. oh but of course they werent worshipping the buddha. and burnt incense was always offered ..cough.. ok so i think why the ritual? why the statue? over the pond people pay to go and be on the set of emmerdale a long running soap. so that they can be in awe of the actors lol! mind you a good money spin. Interesting perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Spock said: Interesting perspective. ... A clear example(s) of how many and how completely the people of the world are deceived.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, Davida said: Hi Spock, this is like a conversation I have had with my family members also. It was so close to what I have heard that I felt myself have a physical reaction to it -like panic. It seriously grieves my soul & I fear for them. I go in circles with them. The Jesus that my relatives say they "believe in" I've discovered from deeper questioning of them seems nothing like what we experience with our "belief", faith,reverence & adoration we have in the Lord JESUS Christ as our Savior & Lord. Their idea of "Jesus" has been supplanted by this Mary adoration so badly that His power, honor & glory been handed over to this imposter "Mary" too. Jesus to them is this eternal sacrifice to God for sin, this is where they will say they believe in salvation through Jesus but it is not the same imo. Upon my study of this issue with them, it seems like a parallel counterfeit rather then just idol worship within Christian belief. In the Mariology it is the Father, and his wife Mary , their son Jesus who was also God & therefore she is the "mother of God and Queen of heaven" -this is worse then idolatry imo. I am speaking specifically of my experiences with my relatives who attend an eastern European catholic church. Other family members attend an Italian Catholic church. All of them feel pretty special because their priest tells them only Catholics will get to heaven so why would they listen to outsiders when religious tradition carries such power? I was this past Friday at a funeral mass for one of them so witnessed these differences first hand & my concern just grows. A different Jesus....hmmmm. Yes, my brother and I differed on one point you brought up. He said Mary is the Mother of God. I said, no she isn't, the Bible never said that. The Bible says she is the mother of Jesus. Big difference IMO because Jesus emptied himself, taking the form of a bond servant. I don't know how this Mary veneration could have such a strong hold on him and millions like him. It obviously is demonic right from the pit of Hell. This has to be one of Satan's best ploys to get the people all confused and preoccupied with anything else not God. I wonder why the Holy Spirit within him and other true Catholic believers is not rising up and laying on some serious conviction to bring about a change of heart and thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted April 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 3, 2017 Maryology IS idolatry because it's the worship of a human being. Not allowed by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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