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Limey_Bob

I'm a former Oneness Pentecostal, ask me questions about them?

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I'm a former Oneness Pentecostal, also known as Apostolics or Jesus Only; I was involved with them in London, England in the last 1980s. Would anyone like to ask me some questions about them? I've studied their doctrines for almost thirty years now. My YouTube channel (Christian Comedy Channel) has a Oneness playlist with 99 videos and my channel has well over 7 million hits.

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I'm interested in how you came to leave that church, Bob.  Did you start to doubt what they were teaching?  What doctrines did you start to question and why?  And if I were to witness to a Oneness Pentecostal adherent, where would I begin?

Thanks in advance for your response. 

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19 hours ago, daughterofGrace said:

I'm interested in how you came to leave that church, Bob.  Did you start to doubt what they were teaching?  What doctrines did you start to question and why?  And if I were to witness to a Oneness Pentecostal adherent, where would I begin?

Thanks in advance for your response. 

Oneness to a young believer appears so God honouring, as they say repeatedly that "Jesus is God." However, when I realised that by their they meant that the Father is Yahweh God, not the Son of God, who lacks every divine attribute in Oneness theology, I left. The key verse which they use against Trinitarians is John 8:24: "unless you believe I am you shall die in your sins." They interpret this as that Father who indwells the Son is the speaker and only they honour Jesus (as the Father) as Yahweh God. However, the speaker at John 8:24 is the Son of Man, read until John 8:28 where the speaker calls himself the Son of Man, so Oneness dishours the Son by denying his divinty. Instead they play word games by saying that Jesus is God, but meaning by this that the Father whom they call Jesus is God, but apostolics will die in their sins according to John 8:24 because the speaker here in the Son and they deny the deity of the Son of God.

Edited by Limey_Bob

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Thanks for your response, Bob.  Would I be correct in assuming then that a Oneness Pentecostal sees God as manifesting himself as God the Father in the Old Testament and then as Jesus Christ in the New Testament and then, finally, as the Holy Spirit from Pentecost on?  In other words, there is one God who manifests himself in different ways at different times whereas, for the Christian, there is one God who exists as three persons simultaneously throughout the ages?

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On 4/18/2017 at 11:35 AM, Limey_Bob said:

and they deny the deity of the Son of God.

Yeah I wouldn't go to church there either.

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Neither would I :mellow:

Question: "What are the beliefs of Jesus only / oneness Pentecostals?"

Answer:
The "Jesus Only" movement, also known as Oneness Pentecostalism or oneness theology, teaches that there is only one God, but denies the tri-unity of God. In other words, oneness theology does not recognize the distinct persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It has various forms—some see Jesus Christ as the one God, who sometimes manifests Himself as the Father or the Holy Spirit. The core doctrine of Oneness Pentecostal / Jesus Only is that Jesus is the Father and Jesus is the Spirit. There is one God who reveals Himself in different "modes."

This teaching of the Jesus Only / Oneness Pentecostals has been around for centuries, in one form or another, as modalism. Modalism teaches that God operated in different forms or modes at different times—sometimes as the Father, sometimes as the Son, and sometimes as the Holy Spirit. But passages like Matthew 3:16-17, where two or all three Persons of the Godhead are present, contradict the modalistic view. Modalism was condemned as heretical as early as the second century A.D. The early church strongly contended against the view that God is strictly a singular person who acted in different forms at different times. They argued from Scripture that the tri-unity of God is evident in that more than one Person of the Godhead is often seen simultaneously, and they often interact with one another (examples: Genesis 1:26; 3:22;11:7; Psalm 2:7; 104:30; 110:1; Matthew 28:19; John 14:16). Oneness Pentecostalism / Jesus Only doctrine is unbiblical.

The concept of the tri-unity of God, on the other hand, is present throughout Scripture. It is not a concept that is easily grasped by the finite mind. And because man likes everything to make sense in his theology, movements such as the Jesus Only movement—not to mention the Jehovah’s Witnesses—regularly arise to try to explain the nature of God. Of course, this simply cannot be done without doing violence to the biblical text. Christians have come to accept that God’s nature is not subject to the limitations we might like to put on Him. We simply believe Him when He says, "'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the LORD. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"' (Isaiah 55:8-9). If we can’t understand His thoughts and ways, we accept that we cannot fully understand His nature, either.

https://www.gotquestions.org/oneness-Jesus-only.html

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This is why I am not so quick to say that Oneness are going to hell.  I don't agree with them, but who can completely understand God?  I can't.  Only God can correctly judge the heart of another.  People who are of limited intelligence can't understand the Godhead either, but they can be born again, repent and receive forgiveness through Jesus.  So I understand what they are saying and what you are saying, but I understand them to be very close to our beliefs even though they are wrong about the Godhead. The Trinity is usually something I won't budge on, but I am willing to say I don't know concerning their salvation. 

JWs are something else since they believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael or the angel of God not equal with God, and not God the Word Himself.  Mormons believe Father God is a man with flesh and bones who begat Jesus to be the God of the earth, that Jesus was married so he could have spirit children;  and good Mormons can also become gods and be the god of their own planet, also begetting spirit children.  What a mess they are!  These two are definitely cults.

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On 4/18/2017 at 9:20 PM, daughterofGrace said:

Thanks for your response, Bob.  Would I be correct in assuming then that a Oneness Pentecostal sees God as manifesting himself as God the Father in the Old Testament and then as Jesus Christ in the New Testament and then, finally, as the Holy Spirit from Pentecost on?  In other words, there is one God who manifests himself in different ways at different times whereas, for the Christian, there is one God who exists as three persons simultaneously throughout the ages?

Some of them used to believe this, way back in the third and fourth centuries. However modern oneness has no difficulty explaining the baptism of Jesus and other similar passages as simultaneous manifestations of the one God in three ways. Most of all these people are highly skill in playing endless word games with Trinitarians, they say one thing such as saying "Jesus is God" which sounds biblical, but in reality they are merely affirming the deity of God the Father whom they call Jesus, however they deny both the deity and the Son of God possessing divine attributes. I have 99 videos, including many debates exposing this cult in the Oneness playlist section of my YouTube channel which is called:  "Christian Comedy Channel."

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I have an aunt who is United Pentecost ... she believes similarly ... she basically condemns to hell anyone who believes in the Trinity.  Do you see or know of any differences in these 2, or are they very close in beliefs? 

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19 hours ago, Abby-Joy said:

I have an aunt who is United Pentecost ... she believes similarly ... she basically condemns to hell anyone who believes in the Trinity.  Do you see or know of any differences in these 2, or are they very close in beliefs? 

Most people in the UPCI cannot define what the Trinity even is frankly few evangelicals can either, so the issue comes down to are you in my little group or in some other little group, as salvation is associated with being in my silly little group (a non-Biblical concept as true Biblical salvation isn't down to or related to attending some building or religious fellowship).

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