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Immaculate Conception


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The So called Immaculate conception had been brought up briefly in another thread so I thought I would do a bit of expository on it here. 

First of all for those who dont know, What is the Immaculate Conception? 

From Wikipedia

The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, is the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the foreseen merits of her son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was conceived by normal biological means in the womb of her mother, Saint Anne, but God acted upon her soul, keeping it "immaculate".

In other words, Catholics believe that Jesus retroactively cleansed her from all sin by His vicarious atonement from the moment of her conception. But I will share with you why this does not work.

First of all NO ONE was ever retroactively cleansed by the blood of Jesus  before His actual death. The righteous dead, even those who died even within the last few hours before the death of Christ, all had to go to Sheol first. Because though they still were guaranteed a place in heaven they still had to AWAIT the actual death of Jesus for them to be freed from Sheol.

For as the Scripture says, (Hebrews 1:22) Without the shedding of blood (I mean here the actual shedding of blood not the foreseen event) there is NO remission of sin.

WHY should Mary be any different? SHE TOO had to await Jesus' sacrifice before she too could be freed from the curse of the law. Yes she too was a sinner under the curse of the Law.

She was a woman born and made under the law (Galatians 4:4)

Is the Law made for sinless people? NO. The Law was made for SINNERS. (1 Tim 1:9)

If Mary had been retroactively cleansed from all sin, meaning she has been brought out from under the curse of the Law, Galatians 4:4 and 1 Tim 1:9 would make no sense as applied to her.

Jesus Christ was the only person to be born sinless because He had no sin nature. He could be tempted by sin but proved Himself perfect in that He never gave in to sin. NO ONE ELSE can make that claim.

ALL HAVE SINNED and fall  short of the glory of God. NO EXCEPTIONS. Everyone creature of God has a sin nature and can and will sin

Even babies sin. Have you not ever, say, seen babies throw their food off their high chair because they think its funny? You think Mary would have been any different? She was just as much a sinner as any one of us. The only difference with babies is that they cannot be held accountable for their sin.

to dare call Mary sinless is to put her on the same level with Jesus. There is NONE righteous, no not one. Not even Mary.

PS I find it rather interesting how the doctrine of the immaculate Conception came about in 1854....1+8+5+4 = 18 or 6+6+6. Coincidence? I rather think not.

 

Edited by TheMatrixHasU71
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Guest BacKaran

Thank you for speaking TRUTH. Mike Gendron is a former Catholic who tells the Truth in his book preparing for eternity.

It's an eye opener to those who are lost in the rcc cult. I left it so I know it's a cult. No argument needed.

 

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1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

"Even babies sin. Have you not ever, say, seen babies throw their food off their high chair because they think its funny?"

That's not a sin.  Babies do socially unacceptable things because they don't know the social mores of adults.  They are just entertaining themselves.  Play is not a sin.

"PS I find it rather interesting how the doctrine of the immaculate Conception came about in 1854....1+8+5+4 = 18 or 6+6+6. Coincidence? I rather think not."

You don't have to convince anyone here that the Immaculate Conception is a lie.  I think most people know that and have known that.  But you've lost me here with the "666" thing.  :ph34r:

 

 

Edited by Jayne
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20 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Luke 1:47 KJV
[47] And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Sounds like Mary acknowledged her need for a Savior.

Yes. 

I see the term immaculate conception as that which was not of man and woman but of God's holy spirit and woman. Therefore it was not to be construed as a conception that would result in a child born to grow to the age of accountability, whatever age that is to the individual child's psychological development so as to realize right from wrong, and therein be qualified as a sinner who sins. 

It was a pure conception through God's holy spirit upon an untouched, virgin, woman. Immaculate, as it were. 

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1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Luke 1:47 KJV
[47] And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Sounds like Mary acknowledged her need for a Savior.

She understood perfectly.

The problem since the first century is not with Mary herself, nor with the TRUTH of YHWH'S WORD,

but

with a corrupt system that came up with ,  false teachings and false prophets and false teachers, 

as

described by YHWH'S WORD.

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33 minutes ago, Yowm said:

And she  would have had to remain sinless for the immaculate conception to have any import at the conception of Jesus, otherwise, why all the hoopla if she is just another sinner?

Who's affording the hooplah concerning her perpetual virginity and sinless nature? 
When Mary acknowledge she was in need of a savior that should shut down the hooplah proponents. 

Were Jesus conceived by sinners, a man and a woman, he would have been born a male human child capable of sin in future. He was not so. Mary's sin status had nothing to do with Jesus' after he was born. 

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3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I guess I'm still confoosed, 'what purpose is the Immaculate Conception for Rome, since Mary is still a sinner'?

You'd have to ask a Romans Catholic. I am not such. I hope that clears the confusion for you. 

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We are told that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb, yet even he needed a Savior.  He said he was not fit to untie Jesus' sandals.  But Jesus called him the greatest man that ever lived.  He never even mentioned Mary in such praise.  Yet she was the long awaited woman who would bare the Redeemer of Israel.  They kept genealogies about her and every girl wanted to be her.  So the Jews gave her role  a lot of honor in spite of believing she was a fornicator. She was honored by the angel.  Jesus honored her by obeying and turning the water into wine.   In spite of that she did not apparently become a believer till the end of His life, possibly either at his death or his resurrection.  More is said about Peter's family than about Mary or Jesus' half brothers from the beginning of his ministry till Pentecost. Perhaps the purpose was that God the Father and the Word made flesh in Jesus might alone be glorified by the Holy Spirit.  God never intended her as the queen of heaven.  But that is what what all these abominable man made doctrines about her are pointing toward.  

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If we are to argue against a position it might be reasonable to read the position which we are to argue against. With that reasoning I offer a link

http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6056

 I think it might be profitable to read of when the doctrine was established, by whom, and why.  And one might want to seek out other resourses for confirmation  of the doctrine as stated in the linked resource.

 

And why might we want to do that? Because; it might help in presenting  our argument for or against the doctrine. It might also help  in gaining some sympathetic understanding  of the passion held by observers of the doctrine, so that  we might gain better credibility  if we are to discuss and make argument against it with someone that holds to it.

 

Seems to me we should not spend a lot of time arguing against something we may have little to no knowledge  of when there is easily available resources to read in order to then question  our own position, affirm it, or perhaps even modify it.

Edited by Neighbor
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I would suggest that since this is a Christian identified community and not expressly dedicated to Romans Catholicism, that the initiating post inviting us to opine on the topic of immaculate conception is open to all fields of believers. The scriptures do speak to what is immaculate conception. That Christians here do not concur with the RCC definition is appropriate being they are not Romes Catholics. The topic as we understand it from our Father's word is still valid in my view.

59 Bible Verses about Immaculate Conception

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