Jeff2 Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 85 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Teditis said: Again, you miss the point that Jesus initiated the action and added the sheep to His fold. Too bad for Jesus, He missed it to! Jesus emphasized what the parable meant in His interpretation. You can correct Him is you wish; I will not argue with Jesus. Now, having pointed out this cold hard fact, their was no denial that God seeks us. Parables usually only have one or two points that it wishes to assert; beyond that it is speculation. Jesus gave us what points He intended to make. The doctrine that God initiates salvation is to be found elsewhere. Forcing conclusions where the intent was never present, is error. 7 minutes ago, Teditis said: You keep overlooking the obvious here in Scripture to maintain your warped, convoluted teaching. All I have done is examined Scripture. You apparently ran out of any Scriptural substance in short order, and have resorted to personal insults. This ought to show you something about your doctrine! 10 minutes ago, Teditis said: Let go of pretending you have the truth... you've been shown countless times, with Scripture, that your teaching is false and corrupted. You haven't been able to counter anything that people have put forward Obviously, you are not an impartial judge observing the dialog. Not a single passage has been produced that teaches what you have claimed. That is a FACT! I have taken an honest look at the passages given, and they were found wanting.., in fact, they have been contradictory to what people were trying to make them say! If an honest look at Scripture leads you to condemn the person being honest with what it says, I could only wonder if you were saying, "I don't care what the Bible has to say... I HAVE A THEORY!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted April 13, 2017 19 hours ago, ZacharyB said: A more obvious one is Jesus' warning ... STRIVE to enter though the narrow gate, etc. (Luke). This is in the context of gaining/losing eternal life ... proof available upon request. Don't think He meant ... STRIVE to be involved in more habitual sinning! But, I could be wrong. Some folks in my church were studying this topic during bible study last weekend. Luke 13:23,24 says: Quote 23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. and Matthew 7:13,14 says: Quote 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. So is Jesus equating salvation to eternal life and if so does it mean we have a part to play in it? Also Jesus said that few find the narrow gate. It makes me think about the story of Noah where only 8 were saved. Also the bible also seems to have a theme of a remnant which refers to a little part of a whole. So I do question if we can take ourselves out of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Jeff2 said: This reminds me of a sign on the blacksmith's wall... "There's a lot of twisting and turning going on here." The plain Scriptures, taken for what they obviously mean, say, "Keep yourselves in the love of God," not "Keep in your love for man expressing God's love." The "keeping yourselves in the love of God" has an end result of "unto Eternal Life." Life is in the Son, and life is only in our connection with God. Keeping ourselves in God's love, in relationship with Him, is much easier that connecting our Eternal Life to whether we are being sufficiently "loving towards others." It is pretty straight-forward what Jesus said without the least ambiguity. As for trying to explain away John 15:10 and 14:21 by an appeal to the mystery of the language of parables, one only has to look at the context to see that neither one of these verses were expressed in a parable or an allegory. With such a hermeneutic, one could wonder whether we could take anything Jesus said at face value. What you are clearly doing is eisegesis, and not exegesis. Right, and God is in contradiction with himself. Rom 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love (agape) has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. Rom 8:33-39 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love (agape) of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 2 Cor 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love (agape) of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Col 1:3-8 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love (agape) you have for all God’s people— 5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. 7You learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant,c who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf, 8and who also told us of your love (agape) in the Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 44 minutes ago, Jeff2 said: Too bad for Jesus, He missed it to! Jesus emphasized what the parable meant in His interpretation. You can correct Him is you wish; I will not argue with Jesus. Now, having pointed out this cold hard fact, their was no denial that God seeks us. Parables usually only have one or two points that it wishes to assert; beyond that it is speculation. Jesus gave us what points He intended to make. The doctrine that God initiates salvation is to be found elsewhere. Forcing conclusions where the intent was never present, is error. All I have done is examined Scripture. You apparently ran out of any Scriptural substance in short order, and have resorted to personal insults. This ought to show you something about your doctrine! Obviously, you are not an impartial judge observing the dialog. Not a single passage has been produced that teaches what you have claimed. That is a FACT! I have taken an honest look at the passages given, and they were found wanting.., in fact, they have been contradictory to what people were trying to make them say! If an honest look at Scripture leads you to condemn the person being honest with what it says, I could only wonder if you were saying, "I don't care what the Bible has to say... I HAVE A THEORY!" You're mirroring yourself in posts like these... the ad hominins and poor hermeneutics are all on your part, not others. Go back through the posts and see how you make light of Scripture given that shows the FACT of Eternal Assurance and ascribe them as proof for your false teaching... you mock the Scripture and the poster and ultimately God Himself. It's the notion that God is not able to see through whatever He begins that is the heretical one and easily dismissed with a short study of the Scriptures that have been posted here for you. It's you that have a "theory" and one that's not based on the God of the Bible. Like I said before, reader harder and pray for enlightenment.. God's arm isn't short and He will respond to you IF you're being honest with Him. Good Luck, I'll pray for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff2 Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 85 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said: Right, and God is in contradiction with himself. Rom 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love (agape) has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. Rom 8:33-39 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love (agape) of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 2 Cor 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love (agape) of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Col 1:3-8 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love (agape) you have for all God’s people— 5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. 7You learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant,c who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf, 8and who also told us of your love (agape) in the Spirit. Once again, not a singular proof of Eternal Security to be found. I'm not surprised, God does not contradict Himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff2 Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 85 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, Teditis said: You're mirroring yourself in posts like these... the ad hominins and poor hermeneutics are all on your part, not others. Go back through the posts and see how you make light of Scripture given that shows the FACT of Eternal Assurance and ascribe them as proof for your false teaching... you mock the Scripture and the poster and ultimately God Himself. It's the notion that God is not able to see through whatever He begins that is the heretical one and easily dismissed with a short study of the Scriptures that have been posted here for you. It's you that have a "theory" and one that's not based on the God of the Bible. Like I said before, reader harder and pray for enlightenment.. God's arm isn't short and He will respond to you IF you're being honest with Him. Good Luck, I'll pray for you. I see that it's easier for you to raise dust than answer an argument! Belief is a strange thing; it is common to see people grab tightly to evasions and insults as proof of a doctrine. To them, the illusion of confidence is proof of a doctrinal correctness. If this is what passes for "Biblical truth" I cannot of myself pierce through the wall of presumption that people erect for themselves. I have not stated one thing that cannot be confirmed by anyone who is a student of the Word. Proof of this is, that you and others have no answer to counter the facts but with insults or out of context passages that don't assert Eternal Security. If you love your theory more than Scripture truth, I understand why what I say is problematic. How horrible it must feel to know that what you believe has no basis in fact! It's a mid-life crisis, you have placed your spiritual ladder on the wrong wall! When one places their faith in Christ, finding truth is welcome. When someone's faith is in a doctrine for salvation, truth is an enemy that must be defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jeff2 said: I see that it's easier for you to raise dust than answer an argument! Belief is a strange thing; it is common to see people grab tightly to evasions and insults as proof of a doctrine. To them, the illusion of confidence is proof of a doctrinal correctness. If this is what passes for "Biblical truth" I cannot of myself pierce through the wall of presumption that people erect for themselves. I have not stated one thing that cannot be confirmed by anyone who is a student of the Word. Proof of this is, that you and others have no answer to counter the facts but with insults or out of context passages that don't assert Eternal Security. If you love your theory more than Scripture truth, I understand why what I say is problematic. How horrible it must feel to know that what you believe has no basis in fact! It's a mid-life crisis, you have placed your spiritual ladder on the wrong wall! When one places their faith in Christ, finding truth is welcome. When someone's faith is in a doctrine for salvation, truth is an enemy that must be defeated. The facts have been presented to you in the form of Scripture, uncorrupted by grammatical machinations that you so like to put on them. God's Word is clear-cut on the issue of Eternal Security, that it is His chosen way to redeem us through the finished work of Christ (present tense). Where as you have offered nothing but philosophy and a poor command of hermeneutics and grammar. You've failed miserably to prove your point of view and opinion and done nothing but show a contempt of God's Holy Word, by mocking others. I'm feel most confident that I'm reading Scripture correctly because of the host of others that follow the doctrine that Scripture spells out clearly. It's a shame that you'll allow your heart to remain hardened to this great Gift of God's Provision for His people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, Jeff2 said: Yet your (Danger Noodle) argument did not appeal to the Bible in the least. Strange... Not strange at all to me ... because ... Unfortunately, almost every woman I've encountered on Christian forums ... is much more focused on her emotions than on what Scripture actually teaches! This wouldn't be why Paul says women need to follow the male lead, would it? Edited April 13, 2017 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Remnantrob said: So is Jesus equating salvation to eternal life and if so does it mean we have a part to play in it? Also Jesus said that few find the narrow gate. It makes me think about the story of Noah where only 8 were saved. Also the bible also seems to have a theme of a remnant which refers to a little part of a whole. So I do question if we can take ourselves out of salvation. Throughout the Bible, God requires co-operation between He and man (except for the creation, lol). His covenants always required co-operation between He and man. But, we're not in a new covenant, are we? We're in that same covenant as the Israelites ... disobediently sinning our way to heaven! Many and lols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted April 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Teditis said: It's a shame that you'll allow your heart to remain hardened to this great Gift of God's Provision for His people. It's blatantly obvious that your heart is hardened against ... God's 100+ dire warnings in the NT (written to believers in the churches) all of which combine together to threaten loss of salvation. One of the most obvious proofs that salvation is a PROCESS until death ... 15 NT verses teach us the believer MUST endure in the faith until the end of his life to receive eternal life! But, of course, you don't wish to see those verses, do you! Edited April 13, 2017 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts