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Does the Spirit always remain in the born-again believer?


ZacharyB

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I believe the Holy Spirit of God enters the one that first believes in Jesus Christ as their savior. No one comes to Christ but with the Father's prompting. God knows who is sincere and who is not and those who are not can perhaps not realize they do not have the heart that believes. But they feel called to come forward in church or whatever it is that makes them think this is right.

When we are Baptized I believe we are then sealed with that Holy Spirit that indwellet us before that.  It is the Holy Spirit that convicts the believer of the sins , the errors against righteousness, or right-living, that they make while redeemed in our Lord. Our sins no longer condemn us as they did before we repented and were renewed. However, our faith I believe is a life long journey of growing in the spirit and learning to walk in the love and Heavenly light that illumines our steps in this treacherous world.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13–14)

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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:32 AM, Willa said:

 I understand, Zachery and realize this may be based on your observations.  

... So thank you for giving me a break.  I forgive you and will stop crying.  lol

So, you don't believe me ... after all is said and done.

My opinion IS based on my observations.

So, it appears that your realization is incorrect.

You're most welcome ... and mostly OK.

This post is based on logic, not emotions.

Edited by ZacharyB
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I consider you partly right.  It is not a matter of believing you or not.  That is to say that I believe it is possible to know that we are saved and to entrust our ultimate salvation to the Lord, having been sealed by the Holy Spirit as a promise and having His witness in ourselves.

 Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

 Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

We continue to be conformed to the likeness of Christ as we read the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to work in us, and other people like yourself to polish the rough edges as we rub against each other.  Thank you for showing me my sensitivity to this subject, and please forgive me for reacting as I did. It was the flesh that reacted, and not my most Christ like moment.

1 hour ago, ZacharyB said:

So, you don't believe me ... after all is said and done.

My opinion IS based on my observations.

So, it appears that your realization is incorrect.

You're most welcome ... and mostly OK.

This post is based on logic, not emotions.

 Making broad generalizations is a problem.  It sounds prejudiced.   So those who make such a statement should also back it up with some scientific data.  A person's observations may reflect their bias.  Broad generalizations are a propaganda technique according to my research, and should be avoided if possible.

I do thank you again for conceding that this statement does not reflect all women.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

So, you don't believe me ... after all is said and done.

My opinion IS based on my observations.

So, it appears that your realization is incorrect.

You're most welcome ... and mostly OK.

This post is based on logic, not emotions.

Logic: :rolleyes: THE WORD AGAPE.. Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

Rom 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love (agape) has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Rom 8:33-39 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love (agape) of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Cor 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love (agape) of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Col 1:3-8 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love (agape) you have for all God’s people— 5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. 7You learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant,c who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf, 8and who also told us of your love (agape) in the Spirit.

 

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Let's just understand they are weaker vessels,

and that's why Paul insisted that women not teach men.

Peter understood this also.

Me, I understand it from Scripture and from experience.

1 Peter 3:7

"Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding,

giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel,

and as being heirs together of the grace of life,

that your prayers may not be hindered."

Edited by ZacharyB
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On 4/9/2017 at 10:54 AM, Jeff2 said:

One could build an entire theology over one word, and many do. But words mean things in context.

No one knows the extent and permanency of the Seal (the Holy Spirit) upon a person through the use of a single word. We can assume all theories, and built a theological tower upon it, but lets be open to Scripture and look at the context a bit. Ephesians 1: 13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise." The condition of receiving, listening and believing. Verse 14 continues, "who was given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession..." A pledge, a down payment on that which is not yet complete. Till the time of final redemption.  

4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God..." A stern warning. "by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

Note that no translation of the Bible says, "until", but "till, for," or as in context properly translated in Ephesians 1:13, "with a view to the redemption."  The earnest, the down payment of the Holy Spirit in in a view to the future redemption of the believer. Yet, in Ephesians 4:30 it is coupled with a warning not to grieve the Holy Spirit, who is the Seal. What happens to those that insult the spirit of grace? (Heb. 10:29-30.) It is clear in Scripture that the very same Spirit can be quenched. (1 Thes. 5:19). The warning in immediate connection with the promise indicates a conditional statement concerning the Seal.  

 

I would look askance at a teaching that would hope to repeal the teaching of permanence of the holy spirit using the avenue of context to accomplish that end. God is not a man that he would lie. 

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20 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

Let's just understand they are weaker vessels,

and that's why Paul insisted that women not teach men.

Peter understood this also.

Me, I understand it from Scripture and from experience.

1 Peter 3:7

"Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding,

giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel,

and as being heirs together of the grace of life,

that your prayers may not be hindered."

A weaker vessel.  That means that women are more sensitive than men.  I heard one pastor say that women are fine china while men are plastic garbage buckets.  Kick one and it breaks.  Kick the other and it bounces.

As to this being a reason why Paul didn't allow women to preach -- Paul did not say that women couldn't preach.  His admonition to them had to do with their speaking and chattering during the service.  He asked that they hold their comments and questions until they got home and not disrupt the service.  This is obvious from the Greek verbs used, but not as obvious in English.  Therein lies the misunderstanding.

Secondly, being sensitive doesn't preclude a woman from preaching.  In fact, it may give her special insight and understanding that need to be shared from a pulpit.

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Closed for review and splitting.  The OP asked if the Holy Spirit always remains with the believer and it seems to of spun into a discussion about men and women.  Before this goes any further down the road, I will try to separate the conversations so both can have their own space to operate.

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