Jump to content
IGNORED

World Poverty Over Population From A Christian Perspective


JohnD

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  897
  • Topics Per Day:  0.19
  • Content Count:  9,621
  • Content Per Day:  2.03
  • Reputation:   5,821
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  04/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

Just saw a piece on Sunday Morning CBS of a photojournalist's work on people who live under $2 a day.

It was not aimed at anything other than to make people aware of it. No fund raisers (as so many have done over the generations exploiting the people they were raising funds for ... even the best of those organizations... )

I know this is going to stir up angst or controversy or even hate for me to say this... I know because I used to oppose what I am about to say...

Birth control

First, let's deal with the elephant in the room... abortion:

I am opposed to abortion because it is murder no matter how you try to redefine. Even in rape, incest, health of the mother... it is still the taking of life. And in these certain instances most will agree it is a necessary evil (in instances of rape, incest, health of the mother).

I do not wish to lay a guilt trip on anyone who has had an abortion. God can and God does forgive all sin (but unbelief in his dear Son). But I do not know of anything that can make any of us feel good or okay about anything bad any of us have ever done... we can run from it, deny it, forget about it as best we can... but in our hear of hearts we know this and every sin we've ever committed is wrong. So I am not singling out anyone here to ostracize or to exonerate... how any of us deals with our own sin in this regard is a matter of individual relations with the Lord of Glory who paid for each and every sin with his own blood. And I believe (for those who have not yet found this) we can all have perfect peace with him right now when we face it, confess it, agree with him we have sinned, and revel (yea wallow) in his forgiving grace and cleansing and healing.

But even in those terribly heinous situations... rape, incest, health of the mother... the baby is hers... this is part of what makes rape, incest, health of the mother so heinous.

And again, I am NOT condemning those who have aborted a pregnancy. I have found in every case my relatives and some acquaintances who have had abortions do just fine condemning themselves (when they face it). If anything, here I am saying take it to the Redeemer and face it, confess it, agree with him we have sinned, and revel (yea wallow) in his forgiving grace and cleansing and healing.

So, I just want to clarify I am NOT suggesting abortion in any form as a means of birth control to combat world overpopulation.

Birth control

To even suggest attaching birth control (training) to aid will offend some here. I get that. I used to be in that camp. I believed "who are we to interfere with God bringing people into the world?"

But now, given the overpopulation and misery of these people plus the fact that the Church is doing almost nothing (comparatively in proportion to the enormity of the population)... the world has become a farm for breeding souls to go to hell. And on that basis alone we should be trying to help people not perpetuate their misery and (more importantly) bring into existence lives that never even get the chance to be delivered from hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  897
  • Topics Per Day:  0.19
  • Content Count:  9,621
  • Content Per Day:  2.03
  • Reputation:   5,821
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  04/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

This brings up an interesting point.

Someone asks why is God's redemption plan taking so long?

1. The Church as a whole has been hijacked by the Roman Empire / Roman Catholicism and at best only diluted this effect through the Protestant Reformation.

2. Believers are half-hearted about their Lord, their salvation, their ministerial part in evangelizing the lost...

So what "could have" taken a few hundred years (of God orchestrating humanity and history) to evangelize every creature... had to take thousands of years.

And the hell of it is... so many lives of unbelievers had to be born to perpetuate the path for those who would believe (in the extended history version) who otherwise would never have been born... had believers been doing their job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest BacKaran

What do you mean by over population? According to who's standards?

There's enough food to feed the world over if lost men would stop trying to play god and running countries into poverty and despair over power they really don't have.

I don't believe the world is over populated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  200
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  2,795
  • Content Per Day:  0.65
  • Reputation:   1,502
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  06/25/2012
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/26/1952

11 hours ago, JohnD said:

Just saw a piece on Sunday Morning CBS of a photojournalist's work on people who live under $2 a day.

It was not aimed at anything other than to make people aware of it. No fund raisers (as so many have done over the generations exploiting the people they were raising funds for ... even the best of those organizations... )

I know this is going to stir up angst or controversy or even hate for me to say this... I know because I used to oppose what I am about to say...

Birth control

First, let's deal with the elephant in the room... abortion:

I am opposed to abortion because it is murder no matter how you try to redefine. Even in rape, incest, health of the mother... it is still the taking of life. And in these certain instances most will agree it is a necessary evil (in instances of rape, incest, health of the mother).

I do not wish to lay a guilt trip on anyone who has had an abortion. God can and God does forgive all sin (but unbelief in his dear Son). But I do not know of anything that can make any of us feel good or okay about anything bad any of us have ever done... we can run from it, deny it, forget about it as best we can... but in our hear of hearts we know this and every sin we've ever committed is wrong. So I am not singling out anyone here to ostracize or to exonerate... how any of us deals with our own sin in this regard is a matter of individual relations with the Lord of Glory who paid for each and every sin with his own blood. And I believe (for those who have not yet found this) we can all have perfect peace with him right now when we face it, confess it, agree with him we have sinned, and revel (yea wallow) in his forgiving grace and cleansing and healing.

But even in those terribly heinous situations... rape, incest, health of the mother... the baby is hers... this is part of what makes rape, incest, health of the mother so heinous.

And again, I am NOT condemning those who have aborted a pregnancy. I have found in every case my relatives and some acquaintances who have had abortions do just fine condemning themselves (when they face it). If anything, here I am saying take it to the Redeemer and face it, confess it, agree with him we have sinned, and revel (yea wallow) in his forgiving grace and cleansing and healing.

So, I just want to clarify I am NOT suggesting abortion in any form as a means of birth control to combat world overpopulation.

Birth control

To even suggest attaching birth control (training) to aid will offend some here. I get that. I used to be in that camp. I believed "who are we to interfere with God bringing people into the world?"

But now, given the overpopulation and misery of these people plus the fact that the Church is doing almost nothing (comparatively in proportion to the enormity of the population)... the world has become a farm for breeding souls to go to hell. And on that basis alone we should be trying to help people not perpetuate their misery and (more importantly) bring into existence lives that never even get the chance to be delivered from hell.

The fact is there are thousands of people starving in 3rd world countries and we can't even always get food to them. It's often hijacked along the way. IMO birth control is the answer but it would best be done by teaching these people morals. It's just beyond terrible that so many people are born only to live miserably and die horribly. Maybe we think we being noble by allowing this but to many unbelievers it makes it look like we worship a cruel God. Or they just don't believe there is a God who would be so cruel therefore they conclude there is no God at all. Maybe God wants us to do something about this and we should stop these children from being born by preventing their conception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  893
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   527
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  12/06/2002
  • Status:  Offline

11 hours ago, JohnD said:

 and (more importantly) bring into existence lives that never even get the chance to be

 

hi Brother

I think perhaps one thing to keep in mind is that.... nobody is born a Christian....

To become a Christian a person needs to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

 

There are many people in the world who don't know Him yet.  The responsibility of Christians is to show Him to those who don't know Him....  To be a witness  etc.

If you are suggesting that Christians try to limit the number of children that non-Christians have.... simply because they are non-Christians.... I am sorry Brother but I don't agree with you....  That is not the what the Great Commission is  {to my understanding}.

If I have misunderstood your post though - I truly truly apologise.   But that was the impression I got. 

 

ps - Please note that I am not saying that all non-abortion birth control is wrong.  It is the reason given for it that I am questioning.

Once again if I have misunderstood your post in any way... I am truly sorry.  Please forgive me.

Thank you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  29
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,239
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,686
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  12/26/2013
  • Status:  Offline

Third world countries do have serious problems. Obviously, bringing babies into a world where nothing but starvation and poverty awaits the baby is not a comfortable thought.

birth control would be nice. Good luck trying to get them to use it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  893
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   527
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  12/06/2002
  • Status:  Offline

9 hours ago, Davida said:

If some one cannot feed their children no matter where or who they are , is it not reasonable to suggest self-control and birth control is a responsible choice? 

 

hi.  A couple of issues to consider perhaps.

Firstly sometimes people suddenly find themselves unable to feed their children through no fault of their own....  For example if major floods devastate crops and farmers find themselves suddenly unable to feed their families until the next harvest which could be months away....  Or if war or conflict break out and people have to flee their villages to find safety elsewhere with no means to support themselves.

Should people facing such unexpected situations also be told that they need to have 'birth control training' attached to aid?  Even though under normal circumstances they would be able to feed their families?  Would it give the impression to them that they had done something wrong?

 

Secondly please note that I am generally not against non-abortion birth control  {i.e. birth control which does not harm unborn child or embrio etc}  -  However what is difficult for me to understand is quote such as below.

 

22 hours ago, JohnD said:

... the world has become a farm for breeding souls to go to hell. And on that basis alone we should be trying to help people not perpetuate their misery and (more importantly) bring into existence lives that never even get the chance to be delivered from hell.

 

The way to be delivered from hell.. is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour....  And it is the responsibility of Christians to share the Good News.. or to be a witness etc.

It is not the responsibility or even the right of Christians.. to say or imply that non-Christians need birth control in order to reduce the number of children born to non-Christians parents.. just in case those children do not get to hear the gospel message....  To me that is what the quote in the OP seems to imply.  And it is this which I am questioning.  I don't agree with this.   

 

If I have misunderstood the meaning of the OP - I apologise truly.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

ps - To the OP.. I apologise if the words in my post was too blunt or harsh.  It is not my intention to cause any offence.  It is just my personal feeling and opinion.  Thank you.

 

Edited by just_abc
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  893
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   527
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  12/06/2002
  • Status:  Offline

3 minutes ago, Davida said:

Sorry just way to PC for me. I am tired of common sense being looked at as offensive.

 

I am sorry if my post was offensive in any way.  It was just my personal thoughts that's all.

Please understand that my issue with the OP post is not about providing birth control training per se..  but rather the impression I got that one of the main issues was about non-Christians having children who might possibly not hear the gospel message..  and that birth control was being suggested as a way to reduce the number of children born to non-Christians *because* it was thought the children might not hear the gospel message....

If the purpose of offering birth control training is meant for such a reason.. I don't think that is a right reason.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  29
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,239
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,686
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  12/26/2013
  • Status:  Offline

11 minutes ago, Davida said:

Sorry just way to PC for me. I am tired of common sense being looked at as offensive. Birth control methods as well as education and training Should come with Aid imo--and why not--it is LIFE SKILLS, it's SURVIVAL SKILLS.

Who is saying it is their Fault? No one is blaming the parents. I'm saying if I cannot feed my children and they are all dying of starvation, it does not make sense  have more immediately so that they can suffer and die also.  It's not a matter of NEVER having another child, either,  no one said that.  What is the problem with teaching Birth control methods?  it would free up the Mother, give her body a rest so she can have a more healthy baby as well as to learn some skills so she can help provide for her family instead of having consecutive sick and dying child to watch die -- how heartbreaking.

Nothing is wrong davida, nothing.  Common sense! The bottom line is obvious, people are having babies who shouldn't and perhaps most of them are having babies and don't even want them. Help should be offered and given. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  54
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,369
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Is it an irony that in some european countries the stats are the birth rate is too low so for future survival, they need to have more babies or increase immigration  and is part of why they allowed the migration of others to their lands.   Yes, as others have said, education is imperative for a nation to see the welfare of families and especially children.  In many country, the more people in a family, it was better for the survival of that family as the economics of survival are vastly different from developed countries.  Laws has to be implemented in all countries for dead  beat dads and moms to know that they would be held accountable for the offspring they fathered.   Every single child born must be allowed a chance to eat and  have an education .

Is the world over populated.  IMO, yes, as the resources to feed, clothe and shelter most are dwindling and getting scarcer.  The green revolution has done much to bolster food production and increase yields, and genetics is promising to do more.  But clean water, and fresh air are prized items that has  been compromised in many industrial countries.  Look at China, it has all this great figures, in GDP ect, but the country is choking in pollution.  Yes, also corporations and first world countries are to be held responsible for the rape of the resources of third world countries and keeping them from being prosperous nations.  IMF and the World Bank are two that keeps nations in poverty when they are suppose to be providing help.       

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...