Why We Should Mourn for the Copts, But Not Assume They’re Christians

[Danger Noodle]

19 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

Even the terrorist who took the lives of these Egyptian people knew they were Christians and as such deserved of death. Now this discussion implies page after page, word after word, in a dark and veiled message to add to that terrorists evil that the people in church on palm Sunday were killed for nothing. Because they were not actually in Christ.

God rest the souls of his people

God forgive the those that lay curses upon the dead. Amen.

God bless you for this. Especially the first sentence. Amen! In the wake of horrific tragedy the assault continues upon those slaughtered by intolerant evil who wish all Christians dead. The enemy of many faces in many places will always hate us. 

Thank you again. Well said. 

[Danger Noodle]

At least this assault is not posted in the Apologetics section. Otherwise, the enemy that is aligned against the Coptic church in Egypt intent on slaughtering every Christian there, would realize they're attacking the oldest Christian church in the world. The Muslim religion believes in Isa, which is their word for Jesus. Slaughtering their own people then is evidence they're insane devils sent to quash God's people because they are of Satan. Satan has his disciples too. It is truly a spiritual battle in this world. 

 

More can be found at the thread linked in Apologetics Forum. Where the thread is being ignored, while the slander here against Christians in Egypt continues. Imagine if hate mongers really believed God is watching. And they who are the fallen would actually truly have to answer to God for their evil. Would we see more people flocking to the word of God? I think so.

For education purposes only: 

After Jesus' ministry there was the Coptic Christians.

Coptic Christians (Egyptian Oriental Orthodox) 451 A.D.

Perhaps the most amazing, strong, and devout followers of Christ on the earth. Just as the Waldensians are the most persecuted of all protestant denominations, the Coptic Christians of Egypt are the most persecuted of ALL Christian denominations, period.

Founded by John-Mark (author of the "Gospel of Mark") in the first century A.D., this church flourished under the authority of the Eastern Church (later to become the Eastern Orthodox church in 1054). At the council of Chalcedon, when the Western "Roman" church began to over reach its authority. This little group of believers was wrongly accused of monophysitism (the Christology that claims that Jesus has one combined nature of God and man). Nothing could be further from the truth as their own creed of faith clearly states that they hold to one Divine nature and one Human nature in perfect unity without mix which is essentially the orthodox position for all of historic biblical Christianity.

They were persecuted by the Western Church (early Roman Catholicism), abandoned by the Eastern Church, and eventually persecuted by the Muslims with heavy taxation, beatings, and martyrdom. Were it not for a letter to Mohammed to "spare the Copts as they are your 'kin;" The Coptic Christians would have possibly been driven out or worse, wiped out. But they survived and still exist today and are constantly in the news for all of the atrocities that the Muslim Brotherhood inflict upon them. They come under heavy persecution and have had survive almost 1500 years of constant attack.

This church is the fulfillment of the Isaiah prophecy that an "altar would be built in the midst of Egypt" and a "pillar placed" - The Coptic Christians are both an altar to the Lord and have had to be a pillar to His glory for 15 centuries!

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Danger Noodle said:

At least this assault is not posted in the Apologetics section. Otherwise, the enemy that is aligned against the Coptic church in Egypt intent on slaughtering every Christian there, would realize they're attacking the oldest Christian church in the world. The Muslim religion believes in Isa, which is their word for Jesus. Slaughtering their own people then is evidence they're insane devils sent to quash God's people because they are of Satan. Satan has his disciples too. It is truly a spiritual battle in this world. 

 

More can be found at the thread linked in Apologetics Forum. Where the thread is being ignored, while the slander here against Christians in Egypt continues. Imagine if hate mongers really believed God is watching. And they who are the fallen would actually truly have to answer to God for their evil. Would we see more people flocking to the word of God? I think so.

 

This article was not a slander against the Copts.   It is a reality that simply calling one's self a Christian or participating in a form of the Christian religion doesn't make one a Christian.   Lots of "Christians"  step out into eternity and find out that their mental assent to the teachings of Christ did not equal saving faith.  That all of their prayers, and sacraments, and good works, all of their church attendance was for naught because they failed to appropriate salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.

One of the scariest things to think about is how many, even in Evangelical circles, who are just as unsaved and will spend eternity in hell because of misplaced faith in religion as opposed to saving faith in Jesus.

[FresnoJoe]

On 4/11/2017 at 1:06 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

Just curious, are you a member of the Westburo Baptist Church. Your language is cleaner but you're just as mean spirited and sharp tongued. If I was a seeker and saw someone talk that way about others, I would not want any part of your faith. 

Just my opinion. 

 

On 4/11/2017 at 3:42 AM, shiloh357 said:

Well, in much of the world, "Christian" is not defined biblically.  It is defined culturally.   It has allowed many people to live in the form of Christianity without actually having a relationship with Jesus.  That is just a fact.   I would say the same thing about Catholics that the article says about the Copts.

You have religion and have no part of God at all.  A lot of people do.  And there is nothing mean spirited about saying that.   It is just the reality we live in and it is sending a lot of people to Hell.

If the article was comparable to the Westboro bunch, it would have said that God hates the Copts and that they deserve to be killed.  But that is not what the article said, so your characterization of the author is pretty much flawed.   Falsely comparing the author to the Westboro bunch is truly mean spirited.

 

On 4/11/2017 at 8:46 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

This is a judgmental attitude especially with a people the author doesn't even know. 

Though the Coptic church is itself a corrupt church as she is yet another Mary worshipping entity it is completely wrongheaded and hateful for the author to assume that every single Coptic Christian is spiritually lost. You do not know the heart of every single Coptic Christian. 

Just like the RCC or other Orthodox Catholic churches you will have many who arent saved but there are many who are, and who will be in heaven and are Roman, Coptic or whatever in name only.

What does God say about those who are part of the Roman Catholic church and her children?

There are many who believe the church of Thyatira is the antecedent of the Church of Roma

Rev 2 (and note in particular the last passages)

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel (Jezebel was probably a real person in the 1st century but she may also point to the demonic Mary apparitions), which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

 

On 4/11/2017 at 9:08 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

It is VERY mean spirited, and yes I see you didn't write it, but the author is presuming to judge the heart of every Coptic Christian. The man is not all knowing and all seeing. POne does not dare call every member of the Coptic church lost.

 

On 4/11/2017 at 9:10 AM, shiloh357 said:

Nope not at all.

 

On 4/11/2017 at 9:53 AM, shiloh357 said:

If they haven't been born again, they are not saved.   That's what the Bible says.  John 3 says that unless one has been born again he will not enter the Kingdom of God.   Participation in the external Christian community and culture doesn't make anyone a Christian.   Belonging to a church doesn't make anyone Christian.   Just because a mouse lives in a cookie jar, it doesn't make him a cookie.

 

On 4/11/2017 at 9:56 AM, Davida said:

Matrix I really love your posts & like your heart that comes through & your forthrightness as I like Shiloh's. I read this article  and I see it as matter of fact, I don't see the truth as mean -spirited in the least anymore then would I see you telling Jacie about the beliefs the RC church holds  about Jesus mother Mary as being mean-spirited.  I consider Copts similar to Catholics with extra-biblical teachings similar to R Catholic Church & I pray for them. From the article:

"There is simply no possible way to affirm the Christianity of the Greek Orthodox who hold to Greek Orthodox doctrine. Salvation is found in faith alone. There is no such thing as justification by martyrdom.

Please pray for the victims of this terrible tragedy. Pray that justice will be done to the perpetrators, and whatever degree of peace might be possible come to the victims’ families. We don’t have to consider the Copts brothers in Christ in order to mourn with them and for them, as we well should.

May the Gospel come to them. And might they be saved."

 

On 4/11/2017 at 10:56 AM, Danger Noodle said:

Coptic simply means, Egyptian (link)

I.E. for purposes of this thread, mourning the loss of countless members of the persecuted church in Egypt that were destroyed in bombings on Palm Sunday, what is being discussed is Egyptian Orthodox Christian brothers and sisters. Who are now slaughtered in Egypt due to ISIS' resolve to divide Egypt by killing the Christians there. 

Think about that when you all read this thread's purpose here and what it claims of those martyred to our faith by terrorists in Egypt who do not think Christians are God's people nor do they have the right to live. 

What Orthodox Christians Believe

SALVATION is the divine gift through which men and women are delivered from sin and death, united to Christ, and brought into His eternal Kingdom. Those who heard Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost asked what they must do to be saved. He answered, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). Salvation begins with these three “steps”: 1) repent, 2) be baptized, and 3) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. To repent means to change our mind about how we have been, turning from our sin and committing ourselves to Christ. To be baptized means to be born again by being joined into union with Christ. And to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit means to receive the Spirit who empowers us to enter a new life in Christ, be nurtured in the Church, and be conformed to God’s image.

To All Those Who Follow Folks Who Sit In The Seat Of Christ

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Matthew 23:8-12 ( New International Version

No Matter What The Denomination Or The Church

Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? Acts 15:10 (English Standard Version)

Be Warned About The Lions And Wolves

Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8 (New Living Translation)

Who Lust After Your Soul

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12 (Berean Study Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

I marvel at someone saying such a thing to someone else as they accuse the other of being mean spirited and sharp tongued.

 I asked a question. Westbuoro Baptists are known for saying inflammable things. So I felt what was being said was similar to something they would say therefore I asked if he was a member of that Church. 

If I asked if you were a member of west alliance Church would that marvel you?

 

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

I marvel at someone saying such a thing to someone else as they accuse the other of being mean spirited and sharp tongued.

Pot calling kettle black?  SMH

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

I'm not the only one that found the post mean spirited. 

[angels4u]

On 4/19/2017 at 4:50 PM, JoshuasonFlower said:

Even the terrorist who took the lives of these Egyptian people knew they were Christians and as such deserved of death. Now this discussion implies page after page, word after word, in a dark and veiled message to add to that terrorists evil that the people in church on palm Sunday were killed for nothing. Because they were not actually in Christ.

God rest the souls of his people

God forgive the those that lay curses upon the dead. Amen.

 

Where did you read anybody saying that the Egyptian Christians were not in Christ? We all know that God is the judge of who are Christians and who are not, I did not hear anybody say in the forum that none of the Coptic Christians were saved or do you think they were all saved? 

And who put curses on the dead? That's a big accusation..

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

16 hours ago, Davida said:

So?  LOL..   Say I don't think your post was very nice etc... but to say are you from Westboro is just not a fair thing to insert in the discussion. I believe the post that ticked you off...that the motivation for it was out of concern for Copts not said out of mean-ness or  to hurt anyone's feelings.    

We are not to judge someone's salvation. Only God can judge that, but there are some that seem to think they are qualified for the job. 

Westboro are famous for declaring those that they view are sinful as condemned to hell. That's the parallel I was drawing.  The OP claims Coptics are not Christian because they don't adhere to Sola Fide. Something the bible DOESNT teach. The Coptics are very much Christians and love Jesus Christ. They believe and have faith in Jesus Christ and for the OP to judge a faith community solely on Sola Fide I feel is just as wrong as what Westboro does. 

And the vanacular used is similar to what you hear from Westboro. And one last point, Shiloh has said he is Baptist so asking him if he's a member of a Baptist Church isn't terribly off the mark. Asking me if I'm a member of Westboro would be laughable. 

I'm sorry you took offense to my question. 

Cheers and God Bless

[JoshuasonFlower]

17 hours ago, angels4u said:

Where did you read anybody saying that the Egyptian Christians were not in Christ?

 

I admit I am a bit confused by your question. The thread title indicates it. The whole of the article shared by Shiloh357 states it. The Coptic Orthodox Christians that were the subject of the article were murdered in two different Orthodox churches in Egypt when ISIS terrorist suicide bombers entered in on Palm Sunday and blew themselves up.
ISIS has said it intends to divide all of Egypt by killing the Christians.

I don't know how you missed what was being claimed about the dead Coptic Christians in the churches.  Mourn them but don't assume they're Christian? When they were blown apart by explosives in churches on Palm Sunday?

 

Quote

And who put curses on the dead? That's a big accusation..

That would be. Who did this?