Why We Should Mourn for the Copts, But Not Assume They’re Christians

[Guest shiloh357]

48 minutes ago, Danger Noodle said:

 

This series of posts I've made are to bring to light something very disturbing. Egyptian Christians were slaughtered on Palm Sunday in Egypt by terrorist Muslims martyring themselves through explosive devices in churches celebrating Palm Sunday. The carnage is unimaginable. May we never know how that feels or looks in any Christian church in America. 

To then put forth a statement that conflicts with all compassion taught by Christ. The statement that we should mourn the Copts, which is a word meaning Egyptian, but not assume the one's slaughtered on Palm Sunday were Christians. Egyptian Orthodox Christians were slaughtered on April 9th by zealous ISIS Muslims who vow to divide Egypt by killing the Christians. They're dedicated to slaughtering babies, children, men, women, because in ISIS belief system these innocents are not of God. And they therefore do not deserve to live. 

They are not of Christ! But we should mourn them. 

 

If they were not born again, if they did not accept Jesus as their Savior, they were not Christians in the biblical sense.  It makes their death that much more tragic, as they didn't know Christ.

Hell may be full of religious people who thought belonging to the Christian religion (in whatever form) is sufficient for salvation, and they are tragically and catastrophically incorrect.
 

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There are Coptic Christians who today are making arrangements to bury their dead. 

And there is a movement on this forum that states we should mourn them but, which by grammatical standard the conjunction "but"  disqualifies for the statement that preceded it, we should not assume  they are Christians. A journalist writing an article for publication on the net as that which appears in the OP knows English grammar. Therefore what is intended to be communicated is: The dead Orthodox Christians who died on Palm Sunday do to a terrorist attack against them in their churches were not Christians!

 

Again, they may be Christians in terms of their religious affiliation and participation in the external Christian community, but that does not qualify them biblically, as Christians.  There is only one way a person can be saved, and that through a personal encounter with Jesus, wherein recognize our sinfulness, repent and accept Jesus as our personal Savior.

 

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Every post I've shown with resource links proves Christian Orthodox is Christian. Be they Egyptian or otherwise.

No, your posts have not proven anything even close to the fact that they are Christians in the biblical sense of being born again followers of Jesus Christ.

 

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To imagine that faith is all we need to have in any degree whatsoever and that alone gains us Heaven is not what the scriptures teach. But that is what is being argued by some. Imagine the possibilities of that one. 

Yes, I believe Jesus died for my sins. And I'm a drug dealer believing in Christ. 

Yes, I believe Jesus died for my sins due to God's grace. And I'm a prostitute. I'm a hitman. I'm a terrorist. I'm a fornicator who shames my marriage and disrespects my husband as I have multiple affairs. But, I have faith in Jesus. Alone. That's it. 

That's not Biblical. Consider what Jesus died for. Don't even try to imagine how he suffered the scorge. For my sake. And for yours. 

 

The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, and that we are justified by grace apart from works.  So yes, faith is all that can get us into Heaven.

The thing about being a Christian is that true biblical faith always produces corresponding action, meaning that if your faith is geniuine, it will be borne out in a changed life.   So a genuine Christian can never be a drug dealer or hit man, a prostitute, a terrorist, a fornicator.   If your faith is genuine, then you have been transformed.  If you're living in sin, you're unregenerate and were never saved, regardless of what you profess to be.  Salvation is transformational, we are changed completely, old things pass away and all things are made new.  We are made a new creation and we don't stay as we were and we don't go out looking for ways to sin.

So your entire rationale is simply a non-starter.  I am rather amazed that anyone could make that kind of argument, to be truthful.

 

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Now imagine how you'd feel if a terrorist blew themselves up in your church on your day of celebrating the calendar of God's sacred days. Easter, Christmas, Palm Sunday. And someone said you weren't a Christian. That's their point! That's it. That is all. It's the grammar after all. It's the language meant to tell us, they're dead! But they're not to be assumed to have died in Christ. 

That's an emotional argument, but not a biblical one.  It's not politically correct  to state that only those who are born again are Christians, but that is how it works.   Jesus said that the road is narrow and the gate is strait.   And a lot of people mistake mental assent for faith.  Lot's of people assent to the truth of Scripture without truly trusting Christ.
 

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What Christians Want To Know

Are Christians Saints? A Bible Study

The Root Word for Saints

 

A saint is a born again believer, someone who has trusted Christ from the heart, for salvation.  Pretty simple, really.

[Danger Noodle]

 

 

Mark 13 KJV)public domain   13 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

[Guest shiloh357]

36 minutes ago, Danger Noodle said:

 

 

Mark 13 KJV)public domain   13 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

And your point is...?

[angels4u]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

If they were not born again, if they did not accept Jesus as their Savior, they were not Christians in the biblical sense.  It makes their death that much more tragic, as they didn't know Christ.

Hell may be full of religious people who thought belonging to the Christian religion (in whatever form) is sufficient for salvation, and they are tragically and catastrophically incorrect.
 

Again, they may be Christians in terms of their religious affiliation and participation in the external Christian community, but that does not qualify them biblically, as Christians.  There is only one way a person can be saved, and that through a personal encounter with Jesus, wherein recognize our sinfulness, repent and accept Jesus as our personal Savior.

 

No, your posts have not proven anything even close to the fact that they are Christians in the biblical sense of being born again followers of Jesus Christ.

 

The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, and that we are justified by grace apart from works.  So yes, faith is all that can get us into Heaven.

The thing about being a Christian is that true biblical faith always produces corresponding action, meaning that if your faith is geniuine, it will be borne out in a changed life.   So a genuine Christian can never be a drug dealer or hit man, a prostitute, a terrorist, a fornicator.   If your faith is genuine, then you have been transformed.  If you're living in sin, you're unregenerate and were never saved, regardless of what you profess to be.  Salvation is transformational, we are changed completely, old things pass away and all things are made new.  We are made a new creation and we don't stay as we were and we don't go out looking for ways to sin.

So your entire rationale is simply a non-starter.  I am rather amazed that anyone could make that kind of argument, to be truthful.

 

That's an emotional argument, but not a biblical one.  It's not politically correct  to state that only those who are born again are Christians, but that is how it works.   Jesus said that the road is narrow and the gate is strait.   And a lot of people mistake mental assent for faith.  Lot's of people assent to the truth of Scripture without truly trusting Christ.
 

A saint is a born again believer, someone who has trusted Christ from the heart, for salvation.  Pretty simple, really.

 

 

 

Amen Shiloh, the name Christian does not mean that they were born again Christians which counts for many religions..

…22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me,you workers of lawlessness.’ 24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.…Matt.7:23

7:21-29 Christ here shows that it will not be enough to own him for our Master, only in word and tongue. It is necessary to our happiness that we believe in Christ, that we repent of sin, that we live a holy life, that we love one another. This is his will, even our sanctification. Let us take heed of resting in outward privileges and doings, lest we deceive ourselves, and perish eternally, as multitudes do, with a lie in our right hand. Let every one that names the name of Christ, depart from all sin. There are others, whose religion rests in bare hearing, and it goes no further; their heads are filled with empty notions. These two sorts of hearers are represented as two builders. This parable teaches us to hear and do the sayings of the Lord Jesus: some may seem hard to flesh and blood, but they must be done. Christ is laid for a foundation, and every thing besides Christ is sand. Some build their hopes upon worldly prosperity; others upon an outward profession of religion. Upon these they venture; but they are all sand, too weak to bear such a fabric as our hopes of heaven. There is a storm coming that will try every man's work. When God takes away the soul, where is the hope of the hypocrite? The house fell in the storm, when the builder had most need of it, and expected it would be a shelter to him. It fell when it was too late to build another. May the Lord make us wise builders for eternity. Then nothing shall separate us from the love of Christ Jesus. The multitudes were astonished at the wisdom and power of Christ's doctrine. And this sermon, ever so often read over, is always new. Every word proves its Author to be Divine. Let us be more and more decided and earnest, making some one or other of these blessednesses and Christian graces the main subject of our thoughts, even for weeks together. Let us not rest in general and confused desires after them, whereby we grasp at all, but catch nothing.

Matthew 7:23 Commentaries

 

[Danger Noodle]

Being born again is a process that flows not from man to God but from God to man. 

Orthodox Christians may believe practice worship of God differently than we who are not Orthodox do. However, to claim they are not born again Christians is not so. According to the first scripture that speaks as to what it means to be born again.

A child undergoing infant baptism , baptism by water, and of Spirit, shall enter the kingdom of God.There is nothing in that passage shared from John 3 that states one must be an adult and choose. Orthodox perform infant baptism according to one offering as to why and in the article linked below: “Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood.

Their faith is the same. Their practice is different. Who can gainsay those whom God calls to him? Simply because now it is said Orthodox are not born again? When Jesus tells us how to be so? Born of water and spirit. Who is more connected to the Holy Spirit than that precious life God gave to this world as a newborn. Water baptized doesn't make it so? Born again? That precious newborn treasure of God? 

Or that convert who is baptized of water and spirit? 

John 1 The Witness of John
…12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God. 

Jesus said to see the kingdom of Heaven we must become like little children. Children are born again in the Orthodox faith according to the scripture in John 3. As are adults.

Gleaned and shared in excerpts from the Orthodox Christian Resource Center:What is being “Born Again”?

The first time the term, born again, appears in the gospels :“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again” (John 3:1-7)

Infant baptism in Orthodox Christianity insures the infant is in Christ and is not at risk in the sin filled world. It is not contrary to scripture. As in John 3:1-7 tells us.  “Let the little ones come to me”(Matthew 19:14) Couple that with his edict in John 3. And then recall God is sovereign.

Our Father says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Romans 9

11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Worthy Christian Forum is a ministry of the truth of God through Jesus Christ. Are we really here arguing who is not one of his? Because we judge what others who are members of far older churches do that we do not do in our own church? Do we call people to Christ? Or does the Father? 
Do we judge who is one with Christ? Or does the Father know their names before he created the world? 

 

What is our testimony as sisters and brothers of Christ when some may say, they know whom God would not, did not, call to his only Son. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Danger Noodle said:

Being born again is a process that flows not from man to God but from God to man. 

Being born again is not a process.  It is a one time event wherein we born of God's Spirit because we put our faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. It is the moment in which Jesus comes to live in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit.
 

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Orthodox Christians may believe practice worship of God differently than we who are not Orthodox do. However, to claim they are not born again Christians is not so. According to the first scripture that speaks as to what it means to be born again.

 

If their theology doesn't line up with Scripture about what it means to be born again, then they are not Christians in the biblical sense.  Unless a person has come to that hour decision wherein they make the conscious decision to trust in Christ, that person is not an authentic follower of Jesus.

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A child undergoing infant baptism , baptism by water, and of Spirit, shall enter the kingdom of God.There is nothing in that passage shared from John 3 that states one must be an adult and choose. Orthodox perform infant baptism according to one offering as to why and in the article linked below: “Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood.

Baptism, in the Bible ALWAYS follows a  decision to follow Jesus.   One may not have to be a full adult to be saved, but one must be old enough to make that decision, to respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.   Infant baptism is nowhere found in Scripture.  There is no prescription given anywhere in the Bible on how infants are to be baptized.  Baptism is not a sanctifying agent.  It is the blood of Jesus and the Holy Spirit that sanctify us.  Baptism is for believers and they are the only ones who should be baptized.

 

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Their faith is the same. Their practice is different. Who can gainsay those whom God calls to him? Simply because now it is said Orthodox are not born again? When Jesus tells us how to be so? Born of water and spirit. Who is more connected to the Holy Spirit than that precious life God gave to this world as a newborn. Water baptized doesn't make it so? Born again? That precious newborn treasure of God? 

Or that convert who is baptized of water and spirit? 

 

No, their faith is not the same, their faith is very, very different from that of biblical Christianity. Baptism is an outward testimony of an inward, spiritual reality.   Baptism is a public declaration that one has placed their faith in Jesus and they identify with Jesus in both his death and resurrection.   It is also statement of faith in the future resurrection, as well. It symbolizes the fact that we have died with Christ and are risen with Him to walk in newness of life.   

Water baptism is not what Jesus meant in John 3 when He was talking about being "born of water and the Spirit."  For one thing, Christian baptism didn't exist when He said that to Nicodemus.  So, Nicodemus would not have made such a connection.  Water used the way Jesus used it, refers to a spiritual cleansing, or purifying that only God can give. Water is used the way it is used figuratively in the OT.

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John 1 The Witness of John
…12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God. 

Jesus said to see the kingdom of Heaven we must become like little children. Children are born again in the Orthodox faith according to the scripture in John 3. As are adults.

Gleaned and shared in excerpts from the Orthodox Christian Resource Center:What is being “Born Again”?

The first time the term, born again, appears in the gospels :“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again” (John 3:1-7)

Infant baptism in Orthodox Christianity insures the infant is in Christ and is not at risk in the sin filled world. It is not contrary to scripture. As in John 3:1-7 tells us.  “Let the little ones come to me”(Matthew 19:14) Couple that with his edict in John 3. And then recall God is sovereign.

Our Father says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Romans 9

11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

 

I understand why they perform infant baptism and I am familiar with the theological gymnastics they employ to justify that practice.   But the practice is simply not in line with Scripture.   What they are doing is grabbing Scriptures that do not speak to infant baptism and then ignoring the immediate/literary context of those passages and forcing them to address a topic they were not originally meant to address.   It's rather sloppy hermeneutics.  It's what you do when you are trying mold the Bible around your theology, rather than letting Scripture form your theology.
 

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Worthy Christian Forum is a ministry of the truth of God through Jesus Christ. Are we really here arguing who is not one of his? Because we judge what others who are members of far older churches do that we do not do in our own church? Do we call people to Christ? Or does the Father? 
Do we judge who is one with Christ? Or does the Father know their names before he created the world? 

 

What is our testimony as sisters and brothers of Christ when some may say, they know whom God would not, did not, call to his only Son. 

 

I John and II John were written to help us know the difference between true believers and false believers, so there is precedent.  Furthermore, there are a lot of people in this world who believe they are Christians for reasons that have nothing to do with being being born again, and some call themselves Christians for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus.   And they are the hardest people to reach because they think their participation in the Christian religion is enough to save them.   Hell is full of good, religious people who were baptized as infants, who grew up and served in their church, who took all of the sacraments, but never trusted in Christ, never had the moment of decision where they said "Yes"  to Jesus. 

[SisterActs2]

Hi all

I went back to Page 1 and re-read what Shiloh said.  I cannot find anything mean spirited or judgemental in what he has reported.  He has simply reported the facts of the situation.

Every time I see the persecution and death of people on TV or read about it, all I can think is "I hope they knew Jesus".  It is true we can't know whether or not people, in their hearts, are true believers.  I saw the priest saying good things about not retaliating etc., and he appeared to have the right doctrine about forgiveness.  He seemed like a true Christian.  However, we still do not know for sure.

I know when I got born again.  I had a revelation.  I had been searching for a while and Jesus revealed Himself to me in a moment of time.  I suddenly realised "Jesus Christ is the Truth!"  It hit me.  It was like a spark igniting my spirit, making it alive.  I became alive in Christ.  He made His abode in me.  Nothing can change that.

Then a couple of months later I got baptised in water.  The old man died and the new one came up out of the water.  It was another dynamic experience.

True repentance happened as well.

Then a couple of months later I was kneeling by my bed and God baptised me in His Holy Spirit.  He gave me two visions.  Nothing can change that.

Three separate experiences.   I believe that when Jesus said, "You must be born again", He meant just that.  Nothing else can get one into Heaven.  The passage in John 3 states that categorically.  Obviously it happens differently for all of us, as we are individuals, but we must be born again.

Only God knows who are His; being discerning and perceptive does not mean we are being judgemental.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

15 hours ago, Yowm said:

I suppose Paul's warning was judgmental' and 'mean spirited' as well?...

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

No. That was speaking the truth. I cant see how I can make myself any clearer. 

I agree with Coptic church is a corrupt church. I agree that many within her are not saved. What I do object to is someone who thinks they can judge the hearts and souls of anybody he has never even met and spoken to about the word of God and dare say that they are ALL lost.

 

[angels4u]

9 hours ago, Danger Noodle said:

Being born again is a process that flows not from man to God but from God to man. 

Orthodox Christians may believe practice worship of God differently than we who are not Orthodox do. However, to claim they are not born again Christians is not so. According to the first scripture that speaks as to what it means to be born again.

A child undergoing infant baptism , baptism by water, and of Spirit, shall enter the kingdom of God.There is nothing in that passage shared from John 3 that states one must be an adult and choose. Orthodox perform infant baptism according to one offering as to why and in the article linked below: “Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood.

Their faith is the same. Their practice is different. Who can gainsay those whom God calls to him? Simply because now it is said Orthodox are not born again? When Jesus tells us how to be so? Born of water and spirit. Who is more connected to the Holy Spirit than that precious life God gave to this world as a newborn. Water baptized doesn't make it so? Born again? That precious newborn treasure of God? 

Or that convert who is baptized of water and spirit? 

John 1 The Witness of John
…12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God. 

Jesus said to see the kingdom of Heaven we must become like little children. Children are born again in the Orthodox faith according to the scripture in John 3. As are adults.

Gleaned and shared in excerpts from the Orthodox Christian Resource Center:What is being “Born Again”?

The first time the term, born again, appears in the gospels :“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again” (John 3:1-7)

Infant baptism in Orthodox Christianity insures the infant is in Christ and is not at risk in the sin filled world. It is not contrary to scripture. As in John 3:1-7 tells us.  “Let the little ones come to me”(Matthew 19:14) Couple that with his edict in John 3. And then recall God is sovereign.

Our Father says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Romans 9

11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Worthy Christian Forum is a ministry of the truth of God through Jesus Christ. Are we really here arguing who is not one of his? Because we judge what others who are members of far older churches do that we do not do in our own church? Do we call people to Christ? Or does the Father? 
Do we judge who is one with Christ? Or does the Father know their names before he created the world? 

 

What is our testimony as sisters and brothers of Christ when some may say, they know whom God would not, did not, call to his only Son. 

 

 

 

Shiloh is not really judgemental Noodle , there are most likely born again Christian among them  , but he meant that they don't teach that man have to be born again to be saved ..

15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.… John 3:15-17

There's just no other way than through the cross..

[Danger Noodle]

11 hours ago, angels4u said:

Shiloh is not really judgemental Noodle , there are most likely born again Christian among them  , but he meant that they don't teach that man have to be born again to be saved ..

15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.… John 3:15-17

There's just no other way than through the cross..

I've seen enough threads to his credit to offer respectful disagreement with you there sister.  I hope you understand. 

I live my life knowing my Father speaks truth according to his will, for his purpose, and glory. He calls those whom he will to his son. No one comes to his only Son Jesus unless Father calls them. And once there no one can rip them from our Saviors hand. 

I do not place myself in the seat that second guesses my Father. The Orthodox church in Egypt follows the scriptures as pertains to eternal Salvation, Baptism, etc... As I said, they do not practice as many Christians practice but then again, there are so many denominations that we Protestants are even divided under the roof of our own House of the Lord. 

I mourn the loss of my sisters and brothers in Christ in Egypt and offer prayers to the families that try to survive in a land wherein a Satanic evil that is ISIS wishes them all dead.

I will never compound their terror with my judgment that a single one of those Egyptian Orthodox Christians , living or dead, are not qualified to be called Christian. As is happening in the OP, through the vehicle of someone elses article which is then propagated to go further in its denouncement of those Orthodox Christians in Egypt.  And these many pages demonstrate it will be without end for as long as others are led to follow that intention that says, pride and arrogance knows more than the Father who knew his own before the womb. 

This forum is a Ministry.

This site was named the other day on the Hank Hanegraaff show. Did you know that? Monday's Bible Answer Man broadcast and roughly 13 minutes in, WCF's web address was given by a caller before she asked Hank H. to clarify the report, by this same OP member, promoting someone elses allusions, not facts, that Hank H. had converted to Greek Orthodoxy. [He did not].  Now, that new Hank Hanegraaff thread is continuing last I saw to slander his faith and further the gossip about him. In a ministry forum. 

 

 Imagine those who may seek us out for community. And then find that spirit of judgment that thinks it has a right to judge whether or not they belong here. Without ever realizing Father's warning. God is Sovereign! Judge not lest ye be judged. One day we shall all give an account of how we walked our faith carrying the name of Christ on our lips. 

 

Thank you for your time in reading my post sister. It is offered with all respect as I know you are deeply committed to our Father and his Son Jesus too.