kwikphilly Posted April 27, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2017 Hi Spock..... I love that question"Why should God let you in Heaven".......one of my favorites!!There is absolutely no answer other than "He should not"......the best part is that "He IS" and that basically is what GRACE is all about,isn't it? Sadly,it is the doctrines of men that can be a tremendous obstacle that stands in peoples WAY,they are so filled with "head knowledge" (as Willa says) that they cannot SEE with the eyes of their heart,as our Lord & Savior is beckoning us to Himself.......from the beginning God desired to be in RELATIONSHIP with us,we fumbled that so badly & yet He STILL made a WAY........in Himself,in Christ.....uhhhh,wow Nice Topic Brother With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemurchampagne Posted April 27, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 162 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2017 Oh, I think his word gives us the answer as to why God should let us into heaven. I think for far too long Christians have taught a self-deprecating demeaning ideology all their own and born of ego that thinks it can say it isn't worthy of God's love, while then saying God loves them despite the fact they first believed they weren't lovable. What nonsense. God loved the world so much that he came into the very form of the sinner flesh as Jesus, a pure unblemished person, so he could fulfill a mission of death and sacrifice for our sake. That was the whole purpose in God creating himself as Immanuel, God with us. When God so loved this world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in his son won't perish as fallen sinners. But will instead be saved, redeemed, reborn, and therefore have ever lasting life, what is it but an insult to God to say, oh hey, really, I don't deserve that! I don't deserve Heaven! Nonsense! God thought we deserved Heaven! That's why he sent his son to show us the way there. Why should God let me into Heaven? Because he said he knew me before I was born, before he created my home planet, that's why he called me to follow him by finding his only son Jesus. And an all knowing God knowing that also said he wrote my name in his book of life that's in Heaven because he knew I'd hearken unto his call to his son. I'm not going to demonstrate disrespect for all that by saying, I don't deserve Heaven. God thought I did. God thought I deserved to be saved so much that he sent his son to die for me. And I'm going to demean that by saying I really don't deserve what God planned for me? Sorry God, you overestimate my value. Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemurchampagne Posted April 27, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 162 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2017 Well, he certainly thought we were worth the suffering he underwent as Jesus so he could bestow his grace in return for our faith in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,846 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,758 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Online Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, No124get1952 said: Spock, It is interesting that you used that particular question. 49 years ago, a friend of mine from ROTC asked me that exact same question. I didn't get the answer write, nor the answer to any of his follow-on questions, so he invited me to church. Quote My first time in a Baptist church and I got saved that day, August 10, 1968. When someone believes in Jesus Christ, and he also believes that he has a Heavenly inheritance, but he doesn't know that the mortgage of his Heavenly abode, has been paid in full. As a result he does something, he is working two more than two jobs to pay of the non existing mortgage. Does this kind of state of understanding, is judge as not been the rightful title holder . Should he place of abode be forfeited because he insist to make mortgage payment , after the full payment of the mortgage. What should we do? Should we make him happy by informing him, that there is not outstanding mortgage. And if he is not quite sure, because he has not yet has been taken possession yet. And he insist to make payments just in case the Hydro is not paid. Should we take from him the in full paid Heavenly place that belongs to him, and give him instead a dark room, in Hell. Quote People who are not Christians will answer something that is based solely upon works. It's not because of ungodliness but because they are ignorant (they simply don't know) of any other method of going to heaven. That is unless you are witnessing to a Bhuddist, Hindu, Muslim or Mormon. Then you will get other interesting answers to judge. And the New Testament says that we, as Christians are supposed to be wise enough to judge based upon godly standards. When Jesus said not to judge in Matthew 7:1,2, He was not referring to spiritual judgment, He was referring to evaluating each other based upon things other than the Word of God. That kind of judgment still draws a curse, even on Christians. Edited April 28, 2017 by Your closest friendnt Corrections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemurchampagne Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 162 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2017 Didn't Jesus tell us all that was required to be saved? The Word made flesh? Were the first people before Torah unaware of God? John 5:37-40You have neither heard the Father's voice nor seen his form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to me that you may have life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2017 2 hours ago, lemurchampagne said: Didn't Jesus tell us all that was required to be saved? The Word made flesh? Were the first people before Torah unaware of God? John 5:37-40You have neither heard the Father's voice nor seen his form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to me that you may have life. I very much enjoy your way of seeing God and Jesus Christ's work. As you know , you're going to be met with a great deal of reproach from that which has no idea what you're speaking of. Stay in your center of peace sister as you have been. Do not be led to behave as those opposed to you hope for. The peace of Christ is an inward spring that flows and nourishes the thirsty traveler in The Word. Let those who have no cup continue on opposed to the offering of that which quenches thirst. As you have been doing. That's why you'll notice the temper of the opponent spirit shall rise. Hoping to make that peaceful spring boil with his rage inside the daughter of the King. I know from reading you this much that God will never let that happen in you. While the effort to that end speaks even more as to the wisdom and insight The Word intends to deliver through them and the example before us. How many have departed because they will not suffer the slings and arrows? The enemy accomplished in his intent. Welcome here. I'm quite fond of your approach. God's blessings abide in you always. You do indeed know the bible. I find that invigorating and deeply refreshing here. Peace unto you, Joshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemurchampagne Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 162 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2017 43 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said: I very much enjoy your way of seeing God and Jesus Christ's work. As you know , you're going to be met with a great deal of reproach from that which has no idea what you're speaking of. Stay in your center of peace sister as you have been. Do not be led to behave as those opposed to you hope for. The peace of Christ is an inward spring that flows and nourishes the thirsty traveler in The Word. Let those who have no cup continue on opposed to the offering of that which quenches thirst. As you have been doing. That's why you'll notice the temper of the opponent spirit shall rise. Hoping to make that peaceful spring boil with his rage inside the daughter of the King. I know from reading you this much that God will never let that happen in you. While the effort to that end speaks even more as to the wisdom and insight The Word intends to deliver through them and the example before us. How many have departed because they will not suffer the slings and arrows? The enemy accomplished in his intent. Welcome here. I'm quite fond of your approach. God's blessings abide in you always. You do indeed know the bible. I find that invigorating and deeply refreshing here. Peace unto you, Joshua Hi there, I know of what you speak. And I have no intention of becoming that. I pray for such as that instead. That really ticks 'em off. Thank you for your kind words and your support. You're really eloquent. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2017 23 hours ago, lemurchampagne said: Well, he certainly thought we were worth the suffering he underwent as Jesus so he could bestow his grace in return for our faith in that. Yes, God went through a lot of suffering, both the Father and His Son, so that we can be eternally blessed with His presence and not perish. But, unfortunately, I believe far too many people over the ages have been deceived with "bad doctrine" trusting in their priests, which muddied the waters for them to be able see the simple message of the good news- John 3:16! When I watch a movie like Kingdom of Heaven (depicting the Crusades) you could see the masses being led to the slaughter all because someone is feeding them false information. (Not saying that movie was 100% accurate, but accurate enough to get the picture.) Then, the Bible was written and books were made in the 15th century so that now people can begin to read for themselves and figure things out with Gods grace. And of course we next come to the 16th century Protestant Reformation that also made the Gospel message of John 3:16 much clearer for all to ponder. Yet today, there are so many voices of false prophecy! Too many! Sigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, lemurchampagne said: Hi there, I know of what you speak. And I have no intention of becoming that. I pray for such as that instead. That really ticks 'em off. Thank you for your kind words and your support. You're really eloquent. I like that. A power surge not withstanding, I'm glad I returned if for no other reason than to read your kindness there. Thank you. I did see a violation of the rules here that came against you in a personal attack. I would suggest rather than be most kind to that in future that you report the violation. Likely that which speaks so is hoping you will say something they can report instead. I wonder if this will help those who do not yet know that God is not in the Bible but is in all that exists. And his inspired word was made so to reach the world by his authority. And yet, it was written by men. Over 40 authors in fact. And countless scribes translated the texts that became what was said to be qualified to enter what we know today as the closed canon. All man's doing. How Did the Torah Exist Before it Happened? The Bible is the inspired word of God, delivered to the saints by his Holy Spirit. The words of God are not God. Does the Holy Spirit become a book? The word of God is alive inside us, when the Holy Spirit delivered the inspiration to write the Bible, and the Christian is sealed with God's Holy Spirit, they are not then absent from The Word. Because Jesus promised he would send the Holy Spirit to guide our steps after he left us. All people who are his as the Father wills. There are those that worship the book, biblioidolatry, as it is called. They rise up in anger against any who do not do as they do. The scriptures are poetry designed to inspire us to look deeper for the message within and behind them. Spirit speaks, man records, the faithful hold faith in The Word that was first before the word that is bound. Sister, you will never convince a biblioidolater they are gleaning what they think they know from the page alone. The Bible gives written evidence of God. The relationship the Christian has is with the spirit of God. Remember Jesus who chastised the keepers of the book when they did not see the holy spirit of God in Immanuel? Do we think this passage below is referring to a Bible someone has on their insides? Of course not. John 5:38 And you do not have his word abiding in you; for you do not believe him whom he has sent. How often did Jesus exhort his Disciples , But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness... Matthew 6 Jesus told the Pharisee's they search the scriptures seeking him but they do not see Immanuel when he is there before them. Remember sister? Even that was missed. Let it be. Let it be. Those have the eyes to see shall see. Those who have the ears to hear shall hear. Those that are of Christ are in Christ. From the beginning unto the end. I am very keen on resources that people who wish to venture in and learn more may do so. I know the denominations resource I posted was ignored by those dedicated to blanket condemnation of the Orthodox Christians in the world. I very much doubt this will be read either. But it is extensive and if you've the time well worth your effort. It may take awhile as you will see there is much to consider. Watch what spirit leads to respond to this now. Quote Jesus Wants to Teach You Himself Come to me, .. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; .. Mat 11:28-29 However when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. .. and he will show you things to come. John 16:13-14 But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit and whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things. John 14:26 God's blessings little Lemur, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 28, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, Spock said: Yes, God went through a lot of suffering, both the Father and His Son, so that we can be eternally blessed with His presence and not perish. But, unfortunately, I believe far too many people over the ages have been deceived with "bad doctrine" trusting in their priests, which muddied the waters for them to be able see the simple message of the good news- John 3:16! When I watch a movie like Kingdom of Heaven (depicting the Crusades) you could see the masses being led to the slaughter all because someone is feeding them false information. (Not saying that movie was 100% accurate, but accurate enough to get the picture.) Then, the Bible was written and books were made in the 15th century so that now people can begin to read for themselves and figure things out with Gods grace. And of course we next come to the 16th century Protestant Reformation that also made the Gospel message of John 3:16 much clearer for all to ponder. Yet today, there are so many voices of false prophecy! Too many! Sigh! Have you ever read the history of how the Bible came to be? How many versions exist today? It is a fascinating study. In the beginning was God. Doctrine is what is arguing in this thread that the Christian can only know God by reading the Bible. This is one of the causes behind the early Christians in Roman held lands being referred to as people of the book.Because the pagans thought the faithful to Christ believed in a God that lived in the scrolls. That which is opposed will say, Um, that isn't true. But it is. This entire argument about doctrine is exactly what pursued Jesus to his death. The Doctrine of the Jews , their commitment to what was written on the scrolls, made them charge Immanuel was blasphemer. When before the scrolls, before the Bible, I Am was all. What doctrine did Jesus teach and champion? If we were to keep to what was written of him before the Bible we have today was ever invented, would Jesus have sent his Holy Spirit to reside in us? To lead, guide, and comfort us? Those without the Bible, who have never seen a Bible, is God unable to reach them? Of course not. God knew us before the world came into being. The scriptures say he wrote our name in the lamb''s book of life before the beginning of the world. He knew us then. The Bible, remember? All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. We do not worship the written word. We worship I Am. Those that worship the book are not of God. Because that is idolatry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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