bryan Posted April 15, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2017 Yes. You are definitely not alone. What you describe is one reason I gave up on organized religion until I got married and had a family. Even then, it took investigation of many churches to find one where we could feel like a part of it instead of something we happened to visit once a week. What did we end up with? A home church made up of people that had all given up on organized religion for various reasons. That worked well for several years, but some people moved away and others left because they decided their biblical views didn't match, so our fellowship is gone since January. We now attend a church where people are friendly, the pastor provides good messages, and all is based on biblical foundations. That said, I don't consider it a fellowship. Nobody knows us personally, we don't discuss anything beyond church and what you'd discuss with a colleague at work. Even at bible study, the discussion is very scripted and more like a public school than a discussion to find true intent and meaning in scripture. Hard topics that aren't easily resolved are avoided. Church, family, and friends are all separate things kept carefully in each silo. I'm trying to find a Christian fellowship. There are boys clubs around and many bible studies seem a bit like those with little actual caring and only a facade with nothing inside. Are most Christian based churches only facades and nothing like what churches as they are described in the bible? How does one find a Christian fellowship? Does one need to find a group of people inside a JW, Catholic, or other church and gain their confidence? Does one need to be willing to ignore seemingly non-biblical practices in order to be part of these fellowships? How about if they're obsessed with things they view as non-Christian and spend 50% of their time discussing how bad they are? A balance is needed, but to what point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 15, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2017 1 minute ago, bryan said: Yes. You are definitely not alone. What you describe is one reason I gave up on organized religion until I got married and had a family. Even then, it took investigation of many churches to find one where we could feel like a part of it instead of something we happened to visit once a week. What did we end up with? A home church made up of people that had all given up on organized religion for various reasons. That worked well for several years, but some people moved away and others left because they decided their biblical views didn't match, so our fellowship is gone since January. We now attend a church where people are friendly, the pastor provides good messages, and all is based on biblical foundations. That said, I don't consider it a fellowship. Nobody knows us personally, we don't discuss anything beyond church and what you'd discuss with a colleague at work. Even at bible study, the discussion is very scripted and more like a public school than a discussion to find true intent and meaning in scripture. Hard topics that aren't easily resolved are avoided. Church, family, and friends are all separate things kept carefully in each silo. I'm trying to find a Christian fellowship. There are boys clubs around and many bible studies seem a bit like those with little actual caring and only a facade with nothing inside. Are most Christian based churches only facades and nothing like what churches as they are described in the bible? How does one find a Christian fellowship? Does one need to find a group of people inside a JW, Catholic, or other church and gain their confidence? Does one need to be willing to ignore seemingly non-biblical practices in order to be part of these fellowships? How about if they're obsessed with things they view as non-Christian and spend 50% of their time discussing how bad they are? A balance is needed, but to what point? Back when my wife and I were attending "church" in a building, we also did not really have fellowship at church, but we did have fairly meaningful fellowship at a home fellowship sponsored by that church on a weekday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonnieschamberger Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I will tell you that worship and the music is amazing at my church ...and my pastors sermons are so very good...but really the best fellowship I have ever experienced was when I went through my two divorce support groups at two different churches when I was going through my divorce a few years ago....it was just so real and man there is nothing like a small group where you can just get real with each other like that...I mean the whole smiley shaking each others hands at church and saying were doing good is fine I get it service is about to start and you just dont "connect" connect with everyone but its wonderful being able to get real....once connect groups start up again Im gonna see if there one that works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,411 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,508 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 I am surprised when you said that not many spoke to you. If it was your first visit, you would get hi and a hello here and there at least. Sometimes its the other way around, where some people don't like other people asking them questions to make some conversation, i have encountered that many times. But as Gary said, Church is first and foremost the place where you go to gather and worship your God. I really don't care too much of what people think of me and i make myself available or initiate conversations. In mega churches, it may be more difficult to have that small town association and fellowship, though it is possible with the right programs ect. I know people don't like the word program, but with large churches , they have to. As one mature in life in general, he has to come to the conclusion that you cannot please everyone, as we are all from different backgrounds and our thinking and social liking may not match up. The pastor and deacons as leaders in the church is what really matters to me. If they are responsive and treat me like a person who comes to worship, then the rest would have to deal with their beef if they do have one with me. I have not have any issues with church except with doctrines taught. I don't think, people would deliberately isolate you if you present yourself as available and ready to serve. Must be some reason on your part too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SisterActs2 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,000 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 1,655 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/27/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1950 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I agree pretty much with Gary Lee. I have been to plenty of churches where I seem invisible to the regulars. Maybe we are not meant to be there (pray and ask God to direct us to the right one). Any homosexual person in our church would have to be encouraged to seek to change through relationship with Jesus or I would be out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,523 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) Giving, tithing if you wish, certainly is Biblical. It is found within the Bible including the New Testament. It is part and parcel in the worship of our creator. Perhaps I'll soon post a separate thread as to why and how it is so. It is a serious subject worth more than a comment of two either way. As to fellowship, I must ask a general question: If you personally are finding church to be a place that is not especially welcoming and you feel no one is fellowshipping with you, are there other places that you find you do have fellowsip and lots of friends? I ask because I wonder is this a general situation for you, or is it just churches that set you off? For there is fellowship going on at churches! (Don't answer here- not necessary or desired by me anyway at all) Yet sure enough, many may find they are not in great fellowship with other brothers and sisters of the local church. If so perhaps it is not the church body that is struggling with fellowship, and there is a need within one's self to make a change of attitude and approach in general. Again there is no need to respond to the question, to me anyway; but there might be reason to think through whether it is just a problem at church, or is it a more general problem. Might want to be honest with one's self on that one. And if there is a problem that one wants to change then at least read, pray, and think on the issue. And then ask of God the Holy Spirit, what is the will of God for me in this concern of mine about fellowshipping with people? I am doing that one as of now for myself. Why, I can find as many reasons to be down and feeling separated, as I can find reasons to be up and with people. Maybe even more, for it seems for me to be a little easier to be a bit of a loner, and protective from any obligation, or sense of slights against me. I guess whatever I let take the lead in my life, that is how I will feel, and that will have control over my experience. I too struggle with the fellowship issue, and I work for a church. But I know it is not the church, it is me that struggles, with how I perceive what is all around me. I know the church is absolutely loaded with opportunities for fellowship in large groups, small groups, and in accountability partners for that matter. But, I have to put out the effort to make it work for me! Otherwise I get into the mode of thinking well this kinda sucks. When I go there with my thinking, it is a dark place, and it is a bit hard to turn my own thoughts around, it becomes a mire. I have to pray, think, and list all the opportunities there for me, and then read the prayer list and pray for those on it. Hey, if nothing else misery does love company, might as well turn it to prayer for the well being of the saints in need. Once I do pray and think, I am much better, enthused yet again, and ready for the participation my Lord has prepared for me. It is grand to behold all that is the local body. Even though the music, augh why can't it be this or that? and the pastors, why can't they change this and that? or the deacons well they coulda done that project last week better I am sure. and on and on it goes,- if I allow my mind free reign! If I take control of my tongue my mind soon gets back in line too. And it is then again a deep joy to partake in the service God has led me into. Perhaps that is key, service instead of receiving, what am I doing in service? It brings best fellowship. ps- thanks for the thread, don't know if my commentary on it will have any effect on anyone else, but it sure has helped me this AM. I am awakened to the need to take part in a couple of fellowship opportunities that I have ignored for a long long time. Geesh up and at Men's fellowship at 6:00 am, and then go to work too?? Okay Lord okay, I will try. Oh I am right there already at work aren't I? Just start at 6, okay will try.- read a chapter before Friday, be prepared, gain an accountability partner, and also be an accountability partner, oye! Okay. And thanks for this and other posts and threads, fellow Worthy Board posters and good people all. It is help for this naturally inclined to being more a loner type person. Edited April 16, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryan Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 I agree with Gary, but there seem to be at least two separate topics here. On one side, pastors running churches frequently are stressed and trying to much with very little. It's up to the elders and other members of each church to build fellowship and community within each church. Some do that well, others leave all that to the pastor who doesn't have the time and money to accomplish that, and even others have elders that resist the pastor and want to keep their church as a private club. Regardless of the social dynamics in the church, the pastor can still relay a good message and get new members saved. What happens after these people are saved is the other big topic. If new and mature Christians don't find a way to obtain answers to their questions and take the next steps, they leave. Are the pastor's messages repeating the same, simple concepts you are familiar with in the bible? Are most sermons about getting saved? Is the pastor extremely busy and hard to reach? Is the bible study structured like public school where you read some versed, answer some scripted answers about those verses to verify you actually read them, and that's it? If people already saved visit a church, how long do they need to quietly attend and volunteer for groups before they're allowed to ask tough questions and receive serious answers? In most, the answer seems to be 'too long'. Younger people are looking for answers about topics rarely mentioned in sermons and look elsewhere. Older people looking for the next steps as a Christian are more and more doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,523 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 16, 2017 The following lyrics apply nicely: "Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the Positive" You've got to accentuate the positive Eliminate the negative Latch on to the affirmative Don't mess with Mister In-Between You've got to spread joy up to the maximum Bring gloom down to the minimum Have faith or pandemonium Liable to walk upon the scene To illustrate his last remark Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark What did they do Just when everything looked so dark Man, they said we better, accentuate the positive Eliminate the negative Latch on to the affirmative Don't mess with Mister In-Between No, do not mess with Mister In-Between Do you hear me? Oh, listen to me children and-a you will hear About the eliminatin' of the negative And the accent on the positive And gather 'round me children if you're willin' And sit tight while I start reviewin' The attitude of doin' right You've gotta accentuate the positive Eliminate the negative Latch on to the affirmative Don't mess with Mister In-Between You've got to spread joy up to the maximum Bring gloom, down to the minimum Otherwise pandemonium Liable to walk upon the scene To illustrate my last remark Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark What did they say Say when everything looked so dark Man, they said we better accentuate the positive Eliminate the negative Latch on to the affirmative Don't mess with Mister In-Between No, don't mess with Mister In-Between Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,411 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,508 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 13 hours ago, ejected said: Simple. The ecclesia falsely called 'church' is out of order. Search your NT. The modern church with a tithe collecting pastor with a paying audience is not there. 'they teach as doctrines the commandments of men.' 'Their traditions making void the word of God'. Teaching man made law that places the folks under a curse. All this quenches the Spirit, killing love, natural affection, and gratitude. So now you know. Better off alone with truth than with hundreds with error. "Birds of a feather flock together." It's a phrase that was commonly used when i was at college and the meaning "people of the same sort, same tastes and interest will be found together and this is the Christian who yearns to have fellowship with fellow believers. Off course, you will need a place to gather and when you do and numbers grow, some sort of rules would have to be established and there you have your modern "church". Absolutely nothing is wrong with this and it is the right thing to do, to take the time out to gather together as a church family and worship your God. Yes, our humanity is filled with flaws, even within believers and there are complicated issues that come and go, but that does not mean we forsake the meeting together and worshiping our God. A father who has children, likes to have his children around him, so do our heavenly father. When you go to a church, the building does not pay for itself, and the rest of its care. Pastors are leaders and are first spiritually called to lead the flock and with the accreditation of knowing and studying God's word. He has a family and needs like every man and the provision of his earnings has rightly to come from the fellowship he serve. You are not mandated to pay tithes or do anything that you do not feel is of your duty as a believer, it all comes from the heart. Lots of people, run to this so called church only when in trouble or life's burden is becoming unbearable and this same pastor you are speaking about has to take on that burden, which some in the professional world charges exorbitant sums and maybe in cases with questionable results. So, you have to be careful of your analytical statements of the CHURCH. The Holy Bible is the word of God preached and taught at the church and is a blessing to the receiver. Your opinion is what it is and i wonder how many would agree with it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Gary Lee said: I'm getting a little nervous reading so many posts about how sorry and un christian the churches are that they go/went to. No fellowship, no caring, no friends, full of cliques, boring pastors, ................. tithe collecting pastor with a paying audience, organized religion, teachings of man and Not God. Is this typical of christian forums like Worthy, that get their fellowship online. Anonymously online, true fellowship? So, maybe I should drop my membership at our church and spend more time here typing away? Go to the Jehovah Witnesses, or back to my old catholic church for love I can't find in my place of worshiping God Almighty. I don't think so. I'll keep on going to my same old church, over a century old, made of wood and brick and mortar. It's got all the problems, and is full of hypocrites and sinners. (Ain't none of us perfect,..... YET!) As far as the pastors salary, we don't try to keep him (and his family) poor and humble, we gather together and pray to decide how we might bless him and his family, so maybe his wife doesn't need to work. "A worker worthy of his labor" Whom would you, yes you, consider to receive just compensation for the amount of time and work performed. Your plumber, your favorite car salesman, your wireless provider, how about your satellite provider. Can you imagine just what they have to put up with in dealing with someone like, say, me. Or you. Do you think he can please everybody all the time. Unless you yourself are a pastor/preacher, in the ministry, you really haven't a clue. The load they carry. And they can't just decide to go someplace else down the street cause their feelings got hurt. I'm beginning to hear, more and more, on this forum, about how bad "organized" churches are. And hearing how it's better to stay away, alone, than go to an imperfect church. I'm not talking heresy here, or obvious cults and recognized shams. Megachurches, tv preachers. Just your every day, right down the street, local church. We are all members of the body of Christ. Each one of us are a part within that body. To serve a function. To serve. To try to eliminate all those complaints that have been aired in this thread. But that would require involvement, right. And responsibility. And time. Maybe work, Saturday work day, keeping the BUILDINGS painted, plumbing, electrical,maintenance, janitorial, etc. Maybe watching the children at church during the week for those moms who would love a "Mother's day out." Manning the prayer chain phone (24-7) Driving the bus on Sunday morning for the non driving elderly. How about teaching a bible study. (How to have a Godly church) Retired couples love to chaperone kids going to church camp (I garontee you will have a lot of friends, then!!). And a hundred other things, one of which YOU were called to fulfill as YOUR part within the body of Christ. Our church is one big family. It's got all the pluses, and plenty of the minuses. I have only had one church home since salvation, getting close to four decades. We have had our share of tribulations, much sorrow and sadness also. But, man oh man, we also have plenty of FELLOWSHIP. In a Baptist church, to have fellowship, means, bring a covered dish. My wife teaches, and daughter also at her church. And we have fun, and why not. Can't a bunch of Christians have fun together. When I go to bed and review the day with God, I always express my thanks for our pastor and church, and pray for our body of believers, lest we become as the churches spoken of here. I do appreciate those who give praise to their church here, and the reasons for it. We, as believers, are ALL part of God's family of believers, the bride. You cannot group all ORGANIZED churches together, they're not all the same. There are a lot of bible believing churches under attack out there, fighting the spiritual battles, struggling to hold on to the truth. Maybe one is just right for you, needing and hoping you show up. . Ask God. Most people I know, got saved from hearing the word. In a church................. Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Gary, im glad you are being blessed and are a blessing to others in your century old wooden church. You should stay there; you might be surprised at what much of today's church has become. I wonder how you would feel if your next pastor was a gay woman minister? Or how would you like to be attending a megachurch with 5 big screens, ear splitting music, and a social message void of the true gospel with no opportunity that Sunday to even meet in small group to have a Bible study. Or how would you feel if Mary, the mother of Jesus, was just as important as Jesus in your church and prayers are going up to her? If you have been going to the same church for so many years, you really don't know what is going on out there and you might be as appalled as many of us. Again, I'm happy for you. spock Edited April 16, 2017 by Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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