BobRyan

What is the "First Resurrection" in your view?

45 posts in this topic

On 4/21/2017 at 3:53 AM, Sister said:

Hi Bob

Even though I have explained my position already, I thought I'd better address these questions to show you that I am listening.

 Galatians 1:6   I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 Galatians 1:7   Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 Galatians 1:8   But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 Galatians 1:9   As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Yes, only one Gospel, given to us by Jesus and his apostles.  Was not given to us through any OT saints, nor even Abraham.

Galatians 3:6   Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:7   Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


(Because of Abraham's faith, he is a child of God.  God spoke to him and he obeyed, fully trusting him.  If we follow in Abraham's footsteps, having that same "faith", then we become Abraham's children, according to the promise, ....becoming the same as the Children of God)


Galatians 3:8   And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

(It depends on how you read it.  I had to read it again a few times;

Did God preach before.....the gospel unto Abraham?[/quote]

Yes he did - preach the Gospel in the OT - via the Spirit of Christ. God the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 1

Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.  

 

Quote

or

Did God preach before the gospel came to us.... unto Abraham ......"saying In thee shall all nations be blessed" ?

We can't verify God preaching the gospel unto Abraham, 

Indeed we can because Christ says Abraham literally saw the future - saw Christ's day and was glad.

Peter said those prophets of the OT were shown not only the sufferings of Christ on the cross for our sins but ALSO the "glories to follow" the salvation that the Gospel brings about.

There is only 1 Gospel - only 1 way to be saved -- if it did not apply to Moses and Elijah before the cross - then they could not have "stood with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 before the cross even happened.

Thus as Hebrews 4:2 says "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

They were Christians in the sense that they saw the time of Christ - believed in it - were filled with the Spirit of Christ - had faith in his coming and they all drank from that "same spiritual rock - and that Rock was Christ".

 

So it is in 1Thess 4 and Rev 20:3-5 that it is the saints of all ages that are raised up in the "first Resurrection" which takes place at the 1Thess 4 rapture of the saints,,, at the 2nd coming.

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12 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Yes he did - preach the Gospel in the OT - via the Spirit of Christ. God the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 1

Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.  

 

Indeed we can because Christ says Abraham literally saw the future - saw Christ's day and was glad.

Peter said those prophets of the OT were shown not only the sufferings of Christ on the cross for our sins but ALSO the "glories to follow" the salvation that the Gospel brings about.

There is only 1 Gospel - only 1 way to be saved -- if it did not apply to Moses and Elijah before the cross - then they could not have "stood with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 before the cross even happened.

Thus as Hebrews 4:2 says "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

They were Christians in the sense that they saw the time of Christ - believed in it - were filled with the Spirit of Christ - had faith in his coming and they all drank from that "same spiritual rock - and that Rock was Christ".

 

So it is in 1Thess 4 and Rev 20:3-5 that it is the saints of all ages that are raised up in the "first Resurrection" which takes place at the 1Thess 4 rapture of the saints,,, at the 2nd coming.

Hi Bob

So if I understand your position correctly, you believe that the Gospel was already preached to all of them before Christ delivered it?  And that Job, Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob etc will take part in the first resurrection, is that correct? 

I say even though they had "snippets" of what was to come, being revealed directly from God, it's not the same has having the whole gospel being preached in the NT, like we have it today being revealed by Christ.

Matthew 13:17   For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


 

 Luke 4:18   The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

  Luke 7:22   Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

 

So in my opinion, Abraham, Jacob, Job, etc will not miss out on the promises.  God will certainly fulfill his promise to them.  When God begins to heal Israel during the millennium, they will have back their original leaders, and those original men of faith lead them, because they are worthy of this position, trusted and true.  All will work for the good of Israel and the promises met.  They will all receive their salvation.  This is going to be an amazing time. 

 Matthew 20:16   So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

They will all know the Lamb fully, for this is the requirement now, that no man can come to God, except through the Lamb, who went through a great deal to make this possible.

 John 6:44   No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

  1 Timothy 2:5   For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

  Hebrews 8:6   But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

  Hebrews 9:15   And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

They will receive the promise, for this is the purpose of the 1000 yrs in the Kingdom, to train them up in Christ, ....a clean slate, a new beginning, and a chance to prove themselves now which they will.


  Hebrews 12:24   And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

 
  Romans 3:22   Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

  Romans 3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

  Romans 3:24   Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

  Romans 3:25   Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

It doesn't say that all have sinned, except Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, etc...but that all have sinned.  And the blood of Christ has to be shed first, before the sin can be cleansed.  And they died before that blood was shed, therefore they get to acknowledge what Christ did during the millennium, and will be taught. 

I cannot say that I am 100% right about Abraham however, It's always bugged me!  but showing you my thought process from these scriptures.

 

 

 

 

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1 Corinthians 6:2   (NKJV)

2  Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?  1Co 6:3  Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The saints will judge the world.  Those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life take part in the first resurrection and will judge even the angels.  

Rev 20:14  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This tells me that the lake of fire is the second death.  All go there but for those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

All who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit should have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life.  

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On 4/21/2017 at 11:39 AM, BobRyan said:

Yes he did - preach the Gospel in the OT - via the Spirit of Christ. God the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 1

Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.  

 

Indeed we can because Christ says Abraham literally saw the future - saw Christ's day and was glad.

Peter said those prophets of the OT were shown not only the sufferings of Christ on the cross for our sins but ALSO the "glories to follow" the salvation that the Gospel brings about.

There is only 1 Gospel - only 1 way to be saved -- if it did not apply to Moses and Elijah before the cross - then they could not have "stood with Christ" in glorified form in Matthew 17 before the cross even happened.

Thus as Hebrews 4:2 says "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

They were Christians in the sense that they saw the time of Christ - believed in it - were filled with the Spirit of Christ - had faith in his coming and they all drank from that "same spiritual rock - and that Rock was Christ".

 

So it is in 1Thess 4 and Rev 20:3-5 that it is the saints of all ages that are raised up in the "first Resurrection" which takes place at the 1Thess 4 rapture of the saints,,, at the 2nd coming.

 

 

On 4/22/2017 at 1:39 AM, Sister said:

Hi Bob

So if I understand your position correctly, you believe that the Gospel was already preached to all of them before Christ delivered it?  [/quote]

 

Well - Christ is "God the Son" and from eternity past - so then the "Spirit of Christ" is preaching the Gospel in the OT - according to even NT writers.

1 Peter 1

10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

 

With the result as noted above in the ost you are responding to 

Hebrews 4:2 says "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

Christ also affirming this Gospel message in the OT - in John 8 "Abraham rejoice to see MY day and he saw it - and was glad"

No wonder then that the Bible says "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

Quote

  And that Job, Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob etc will take part in the first resurrection, is that correct? 

[/quote]

 

Yes - the "First resurrection" of Rev 20:3-5 of the "blessed and holy" where the "dead in Christ rise first" - 1 Thess 4.

 

 

Quote

 

I say even though they had "snippets" of what was to come, being revealed directly from God, it's not the same has having the whole gospel being preached in the NT, like we have it today being revealed by Christ.[/quote]

 

True - they may not have had the exact number of details we have today. 

Yet the Bible says "WE have had the Gospel preached to us just as THEY also" Hebrews 4:2

 

Quote

It doesn't say that all have sinned, except Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, etc...but that all have sinned.

[/quote]

True - the fact that they had the Gospel preached to them does not mean they did not sin.

All need Gospel forgiveness - just as Moses and Elijah needed it - to be able to stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 on the mount of transfiguration - in glory with Christ - before the Cross.

All the saints in the Bible that were taken directly to heaven - without dying - were taken in the OT. (Elijah and Enoch)

 

 

Quote

  And the blood of Christ has to be shed first, before the sin can be cleansed.  And they died before that blood was shed, therefore they get to acknowledge what Christ did during the millennium, and will be taught. 

I cannot say that I am 100% right about Abraham however, It's always bugged me!  but showing you my thought process from these scriptures.

Romans 4 says that God is not at all limited by time - and views those things that are not as though they are - such that "a father of many nations HAVE I made you" is said to Abraham while as yet he had none. The One Gospel preached in the OT was in full effect. That means as Jesus points out to Nicodemus in John 3 the born-again experience is an OT one.

The key is to remember that the fallen condition of man - as described in Romans 3 - does not allow for a half-saved half-converted person to be a saint, to be one of the Hebrews 11 giants of faith held up before the NT church as "examples" for them to follow. It takes the full gospel benefit to save the lost.

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1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

 

 

 

Well - Christ is "God the Son" and from eternity past - so then the "Spirit of Christ" is preaching the Gospel in the OT - according to even NT writers.

1 Peter 1

10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

 

With the result as noted above in the ost you are responding to 

Hebrews 4:2 says "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also"

Christ also affirming this Gospel message in the OT - in John 8 "Abraham rejoice to see MY day and he saw it - and was glad"

No wonder then that the Bible says "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

 

Yes - the "First resurrection" of Rev 20:3-5 of the "blessed and holy" where the "dead in Christ rise first" - 1 Thess 4.

 

 

 

True - they may not have had the exact number of details we have today. 

Yet the Bible says "WE have had the Gospel preached to us just as THEY also" Hebrews 4:2

 

True - the fact that they had the Gospel preached to them does not mean they did not sin.

All need Gospel forgiveness - just as Moses and Elijah needed it - to be able to stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 on the mount of transfiguration - in glory with Christ - before the Cross.

All the saints in the Bible that were taken directly to heaven - without dying - were taken in the OT. (Elijah and Enoch)

 

 

Romans 4 says that God is not at all limited by time - and views those things that are not as though they are - such that "a father of many nations HAVE I made you" is said to Abraham while as yet he had none. The One Gospel preached in the OT was in full effect. That means as Jesus points out to Nicodemus in John 3 the born-again experience is an OT one.

The key is to remember that the fallen condition of man - as described in Romans 3 - does not allow for a half-saved half-converted person to be a saint, to be one of the Hebrews 11 giants of faith held up before the NT church as "examples" for them to follow. It takes the full gospel benefit to save the lost.

Thank you Bob

You have given me some good scriptures to think upon.

 

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