Spock Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 minute ago, BobRyan said: Good point. In 1 Cor 15 we are reminded that Jesus' resurrection represents the "first fruits" of the dead raised to eternal life. So then... you raise a good question about why this yearly celebration event is being tied to a 7 day cycle day-of-week. Thanks Bob. Keep researching (simple Google- origin of Easter) all the way back to the beginning and let me know how you feel then. I'm here waiting to hear back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2017 8 hours ago, shiloh357 said: So the early church had to come with ways to "Christianize" (for a lack of a better word) pagan customs. They had to find ways to give early believers a way to honor God in their cultural context, and that is likely where the custom of celebrating Christ's birthday came from. And it is also where celebrating Jesus' resurrection came from in the context of "new life" represented in the fertility rites of the ancient world. So the early church leaders were not trying to be both pagan and Christian at the same time. They were not trying to hold on to paganism while trying to Christian or mix paganism with Christianity. The early church leaders should not have done that. DEUTERONOMY 12 [29] When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; [30] Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,204 Content Per Day: 3.35 Reputation: 16,629 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Spock said: Respectfully, this argument doesn't make it for me. Maybe God has some clearly appointed days that he wants to be remembered: The 7 Feasts pursuant to Leviticus 23. I believe these days also POINT TO YESHUA besides the obvious meaning to the Jews: Example: First Fruits- Resurrection Passover- crucifixion Weeks - - giving of the Holy Spirit sukkot- birth of Christ Unleavened bread- Lords body will not decay Trumpets - Rapture maybe? Atonement- time of awe leaven represents sin in the Bible. Jesus was without sin. That is why we use unleavened bread in communion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2017 18 hours ago, Spock said: Okay, I waited until after Easter to start this. I'm sure this has been discussed previously, but I really need to vent here and I really hope to get good replies to help ease my pain. Why can't "we" change the date we celebrate this important event for Christians to the date that is Biblical? 3 days after Passover, which happens to be the Feast of First Fruits (Jewish calendar). Hi Spock. Never looked into this concerning the First Fruits. I did look into the 3 days and 3nights. Found that Jesus rose from the dead at sunset on a weekly sabbath. I realize thats not what you wanna talk about so ill try to remain silent and learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,204 Content Per Day: 3.35 Reputation: 16,629 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2017 I am fully in favor of celebrating Jewish festivals instead of Roman ones. Most are a lot more meaningful to me, even when I don't fully understand them. That is especially true of celebrating such loathsome days as halloween. May day and most saints days are largely mixed with pagan traditions as well. I don't relate to these at all. Traditions should have meaning. And we probably understand Jewish holidays better than many Israelis do, since many are atheists and others don't believe in the resurrection. We know that Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection. His triumph over death is worth celebrating, period. All that aside, the eggs are good and it is hard to get past chocolate in any form. But I had a pet rabbit when young that we had for Easter dinner. It was a traumatic moment for a 4 year old. Ham with sweet potatoes is much better even if it isn't a Jewish tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Spock said: Respectfully, this argument doesn't make it for me. Maybe God has some clearly appointed days that he wants to be remembered: The 7 Feasts pursuant to Leviticus 23. I believe these days also POINT TO YESHUA besides the obvious meaning to the Jews: Example: First Fruits- Resurrection Passover- crucifixion Weeks - - giving of the Holy Spirit sukkot- birth of Christ Unleavened bread- Lords body will not decay Trumpets - Rapture maybe? Atonement- time of awe Leviticus 23 First month Hoy Days pertain to first coming: Passover - Crucifixion First day of feast of unleavened bread -- is considered to be Passover. (First month feasts) Unleavened bread Feast of First Fruits - Resurrection of Christ 50 days after? Passover?: Pentecost (weeks) 7th Month feasts (pertain to the 2nd coming) Feast of Trumpets (7 Days of awe) Rosh Hashanah Day of Atonement (Judgment of the world) -- Yom Kippur, Sukkot - feast of booths - Saints travel from earth to Heaven at 2nd coming - for 1 week. Edited April 18, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 44 minutes ago, Willa said: I am fully in favor of celebrating Jewish festivals instead of Roman ones. Most are a lot more meaningful to me, even when I don't fully understand them. That is especially true of celebrating such loathsome days as halloween. May day and most saints days are largely mixed with pagan traditions as well. I don't relate to these at all. Traditions should have meaning. And we probably understand Jewish holidays better than many Israelis do, since many are atheists and others don't believe in the resurrection. We know that Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection. His triumph over death is worth celebrating, period. All that aside, the eggs are good and it is hard to get past chocolate in any form. But I had a pet rabbit when young that we had for Easter dinner. It was a traumatic moment for a 4 year old. Ham with sweet potatoes is much better even if it isn't a Jewish tradition. Thank you for sharing your thoughts here Willa. Your last paragraph was interesting: 1. You had to eat a pet rabbit! Yikes! 2. What woman doesn't like chocolate 3. Yes, I remember eating Porky Pig too growing up. (Eat more chicken now) If you are interested, I read a great small book called, The Feasts of the Lord by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal. All 7 Feasts are explained from a historic perspective, biblical observance, and a prophetic significance as well. By that I mean, together they form Gods prophetic calendar outlining the work of history's most important person- Jesus, the Messiah. You will see things much differently after considering the implications of this book and those "Jewish" Feasts. Cheers, spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Spock said: I hear what you are saying, but let me play the Angel's Advocate if you permit me - What would God do? Do you believe God would say to you, "Shiloh, absolutely, let's win these pagans over this way, I like how you are thinking here. If you don't do it this way, they would NEVER stay committed to my son or the consequences would be too much for them to handle." Did God need for this to be in order to win people to Christ? Is this Gods way or man's way? And don't forget the decision to change Sabbath, celebrate Resurrection Day on Easter was also highly motivated by anti semitism, which I am pretty sure you know all about that. The early church was not adopting pagan customs. I think that people are conflating the Christian celebration of the Lord's resurrection with the secular observance of Easter. You cannot blend those two things together. What the early church did, was to have a celebration of the resurrection coincide with when the pagans were celebrating their holidays. That is not an adoption of paganism. The fertility rites of Easter included sexual immorality. The pagans, in order to honor the fertility gods would have sex with the temple prostitutes because they believed that it would cause the fertility gods to favor their crops and their herds and flocks. I mean, when you look at what was done at these Spring fertility rites, it really is nothing like simply celebrating the Lord's resurrection on Easter. And it should also be pointed out that it would only disobedient if the Lord had given a set prescription for how his resurrection was to be memorialized. Since he did not do that, one cannot say that it either disobedient to celebrate it, or that it is disobedient that it is celebrated on Easter. I would also point out that this is not about "winning the pagans over." This has nothing to do with evangelism. The early church fathers were more concerned with keeping new believers from falling back into paganism. The anti-Semitism connected with Easter really didn't come about until the time of Midieval Europe and into the 18th century. The early church's celebration of the resurrection was not rooted in anti-Semitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, WailingWall said: The early church leaders should not have done that. DEUTERONOMY 12 [29] When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; [30] Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. I don't think you really paid attention to what I said. I said they were NOT mixing paganism with Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,776 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,729 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Online Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Willa said: leaven represents sin in the Bible. Jesus was without sin. That is why we use unleavened bread in communion. Leaven has more than one meaning , within the context of the unleavened bread celebration it does represents sin. Even within this celebration , "the unleavened bread ", represents something. The people without leaven, are people without sin. But as the bread without leaven is dead , so the people were without sin, but also were dead, without the "LIFE", In the Law of Moses there is a ceremony where the priest make bread with lots of leaven (yeast) and the eat it and pass it around. This is the bread of life, that came down from Heaven. The leaven in this example symbolize not sin but the LIFE. And as a little leaven spreads in the whole dough, so the life starting with Jesus Christ will be spread like the leaven spreads in the whole world. In the old they were without sin (leaven), but as the bread was without the leaven dead, so they were , without the LIFE dead. That's why we need JESUS CHRIST , the LIFE Giver. So the Gospel is about having the LIFE. Is not about sins, JESUS CHRIST has died the Attonmen has taken place, the judgement of sins has been put away. Believe to be alive to God. That's the Gospel Paul preach. Reconcile to God, "Believe in Jesus Christ". Thought to mention about another symbolism for the "leaven", but I took it a little bit farther. If you visit a Messianic congregation, at the end the pass around a loaf of bread with leaven, and the offer it to both Jews and not Jews. One Savior for all. One LIFE Giver for all. Symbolism say a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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