Wayne222 Posted April 20, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,557 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,635 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, Spock said: God is a jealous God, you know. That's why he took us from the old and put us in the new. We have peace in christ. Those laws were for Israel not for us. Converting people to keep Jewish laws is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Which only applies if you're worshiping other gods. I don't know Shiloh. People say, "Happy Easter" yes? They might as well say Happy Ishtar. And of course all those pagan rituals that went with those pagan holidays - easter bunnies, eggs, fur trees for Christmas.... i would feel dirty Shiloh, which is why I got rid of celebrating those days and instead celebrate Passover (death), First Fruits (resurrection) and Sukkot (birth of YESHUA). It makes much more sense to celebrate important days on days God gave us, not pagans. Did you ever read: Nineteenth-century Scottish Protestant clergyman Alexander Hislop’s work The Two Babylons is still considered a definitive work on pagan customs that survive in today’s religious practices. Edited April 20, 2017 by Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wayne222 said: That's why he took us from the old and put us in the new. We have peace in christ. Those laws were for Israel not for us. Converting people to keep Jewish laws is wrong. I'm not so sure about that Wayne. Read this from Lev 23: 1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies. spock: Notice the Lord said, these are MY APPOINTED FESTIVALS, the appointed festivals OF THE LORD..." I know The Lord said speak to the Israelites, but those were His people back then. Today his people includes the church, and Jew and gentile are one. I still believe his words to the Israelites are meant today for us as well. I know you find that adding bondage, but maybe you are Trying to make this sound harder than it is. If you swap Easter for First Fruits and Christmas for sukkot, how does that add bondage to you? You are now celebrating them on Gods appointed Feasts, not man's. It sounds to me Wayne that you just want to keep your traditions and not rethink or alter them in any way and you resent people who tell you otherwise. Thus, you call people like me Judaizers. Tsk tsk I'm not asking you to be circumcised for crying out loud. Lol Lastly, Jesus never observed Easter, never sanctioned it and never taught His disciples to celebrate it. Nor did the apostles teach the Church to do so. (Just because Constantine's Church of Nicaea in 323 sanctioned it, doesn't make it the right.) Edited April 21, 2017 by Spock Spelling as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 475 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,557 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,635 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Spock said: I'm not so sure about that Wayne. Read this from Lev 23: 1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies. spock: Notice the Lord said, these are MY APPOINTED FESTIVALS, the appointed festivals OF THE LORD..." I know The Lord said speak to the Israelites, but those were His people back then. Today his people includes the church, and Jew and gentile are one. I still believe his words to the Israelites are meant today for us as well. I know you find that adding bondage, but maybe you are Trying to make this sound harder than it is. If you swap Easter for First Fruits and Christmas for sukkot, how does that add bondage to you? You are now celebrating them on Gods appointed Feasts, not man's. It sounds to me Wayne that you just want to keep your traditions and not rethink or alter them in any way and you resent people who tell you otherwise. Thus, you call people like me Judaizers. Tsk tsk I'm not asking you to be circumcised for crying out loud. Lol Lastly, Jesus never observed Easter, never sanctioned it and never taught His disciples to celebrate it. Nor did the apostles teach the Church to do so. (Just because Constantine's Church of Nicaea in 323 sanctioned it, doesn't make it the right.) I want to be new testament not old testament. I kept the old holy days when I was a member of the worldwide church of God under HWA. If God wanted us to keep them it would be commanded in the new testament. Paul said to Peter why do you want to make the Gentiles live as the Jews when we don't live that way. Spock you just join a worldwide church of God off shoot. You would fit in. But I hope you see the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Was Jesus a New Testament believer? Were any of the apostles NT believers only? Nope, each one followed OT rules. Did any go to Christmas or Easter service? Lol Just because I believe in following the 10 C and worship Resurrection day and his coming into this world on the REAL days God appointed and not some pagan holiday that anyone with an open mind who has done even a little research knows those days are INACCURATE (12/25 and whenever Easter is celebrated) ....this makes me the bad guy and you the right guy! That is so funny and ironic too. Do me a favor....in Heaven, seek me out and we will go to Jesus together and ask Him, "Hey Lord, was it okay to celebrate your resurrection on the pagan feast of Estarte or Ishtar instead of on your appointed Feast of First Fruits? And, Was it okay to celebrate your coming into this world on the feast of some sun god, Saturnalia, rather than at your appointed Feast- Sukkot?" Cant wait to see what he says. But if he tells us you were right and I was wrong, I will carry your golf bags around for one week. If I'm right, you have to do the same for me. Deal? Edited April 21, 2017 by Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Spock said: Was Jesus a New Testament believer? Were any of the apostles NT believers only? Nope, each one followed OT rules. Did any go to Christmas or Easter service? Lol Just because I believe in following the 10 C and worship Resurrection day and his coming into this world on the REAL days God appointed and not some pagan holiday that anyone with an open mind who has done even a little research knows those days are INACCURATE (12/25 and whenever Easter is celebrated) ....this makes me the bad guy and you the right guy! That is so funny and ironic too. Do me a favor....in Heaven, seek me out and we will go to Jesus together and ask Him, "Hey Lord, was it okay to celebrate your resurrection on the pagan feast of Estarte or Ishtar instead of on your appointed Feast of First Fruits? And, Was it okay to celebrate your coming into this world on the feast of some sun god, Saturnalia, rather than at your appointed Feast- Sukkot?" Cant wait to see what he says. But if he tells us you were right and I was wrong, I will carry your golf bags around for one week. If I'm right, you have to do the same for me. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) On 4/20/2017 at 3:34 AM, shiloh357 said: The article conflates the celebration of Jesus' resurrection on Easter, with secular the celebration of Easter. Those are two different things. I realize that in modern parlance, we tend to see them as the same thing. The early church was not trying to hold on to their pagan roots by creating a celebration of the resurrection of Jesus on Easter. They were trying to give the new converts something to do on Easter that honors Jesus so that they would not engage in the pagan fertility observances they were saved out of. They did not want them to be tempted to go back to their pagan holidays. The same thing applies to Christmas. My biggest problem is with the bad math of friday crucifixion sunday resurection. In mathew Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights. The feast were given by God as a witness to his work to be acted out till the last days. Jesus sacrificed on the day before the annual sabbath would make 3 days and 3 nights if you follow the feast and their time line instead of the pagan celebrations. The annual sabbath would also testify to Jesus' fulfillment of the annual Sacrafices. Plus if you recieve the wittness of the feast God has provided for us. you'll know why the people were gathered at the temple when he rode up on the unboke mule. You will know why they were gathered at the last supper and how it is a witness to the messiahs purposes. You will also understand what not knowing the day or the hour means, youll know what the last trumpet is, youll know the white robes you put on without going back in your house our the doors are shut and you cant enter the temple for the celebration. Youll know what was being acted out and how Pentecost was also a feast witness. If you study the feasts you actually understand a lot of what Jesus said and did and a lot mysterys that have been used to support false teaching without knowledge of the feasts. You can observe the feasts to recieve the ordained witness of God to the messiahs work to enlighting your understanding of Gods purposes in Christ with out making the feasts a law or religious tradition you must partake in for righteousness before God without Christ. The feasts are a witness to Christ and truth. Edited April 21, 2017 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Reinitin said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Wayne222 said: I want to be new testament not old testament. I kept the old holy days when I was a member of the worldwide church of God under HWA. If God wanted us to keep them it would be commanded in the new testament. Paul said to Peter why do you want to make the Gentiles live as the Jews when we don't live that way. Spock you just join a worldwide church of God off shoot. You would fit in. But I hope you see the truth. Wayne, i do want to say I've enjoyed discussing this with you. Not many people probably want to discuss this for fear of getting their traditions challenged. I remember when my wife and I came to the decision to NOT celebrate Christmas and Easter like everyone else, it was not easy at first. Friends and family tried to make us feel badly and we took some heat for it, and still do somewhat. So, there is definitely a cost when you swim against the tide. But, we followed our consciences and research and here we are today, telling people why we keep the Sabbath day Holy and why we worship his resurrection and entry out of the womb on different days. In case you didn't know this- its no skin off my back if you reject everything I said. You are not accountable to me and while I was a teacher for 20 years, you have never been my student. shalom buddy, spock pS if I wasn't so content worshipping in my home with a few other radicals like me, I might check out that worldwide church of God you referred me to. Ha Edited April 21, 2017 by Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted April 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,829 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,756 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2017 15 hours ago, Spock said: Was Jesus a New Testament believer? Were any of the apostles NT believers only? Nope, each one followed OT rules. Did any go to Christmas or Easter service? Lol Just because I believe in following the 10 C and worship Resurrection day and his coming into this world on the REAL days God appointed and not some pagan holiday that anyone with an open mind who has done even a little research knows those days are INACCURATE (12/25 and whenever Easter is celebrated) ....this makes me the bad guy and you the right guy! That is so funny and ironic too. Do me a favor....in Heaven, seek me out and we will go to Jesus together and ask Him, "Hey Lord, was it okay to celebrate your resurrection on the pagan feast of Estarte or Ishtar instead of on your appointed Feast of First Fruits? And, Was it okay to celebrate your coming into this world on the feast of some sun god, Saturnalia, rather than at your appointed Feast- Sukkot?" Cant wait to see what he says. But if he tells us you were right and I was wrong, I will carry your golf bags around for one week. If I'm right, you have to do the same for me. Deal? I always wanted to know more about the Jewish calendar and their holidays and the meaning they to Jewish people. I know a lot about the ancient God's of the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, and the Caanaties. The Norvegians, and the eastern religions . I don't think so that it is a prohibition to learn about the Jewish calendar and their yearly Holidays . It is not only in the Jewish holidays that we can see the need and the promise for something else that it is needed. Must be a reason why the Romans and the Greeks received the Gospel. Have you ever considered how their beliefs may have prepared them to receive the Gospel. I am not against studying the Jewish holidays, I understand that you believe in the resurrection, and you are not studying or honoring them without JESUS CHRIST ,but with CHRIST. There is a lot to learn . But let's say if you were one of the evangelist at the beginning of the Gospel, and you visit my Town, and me as a Greek. Then what would you do? Are you going to teach the people about all those Jewish holidays, before you tell them about the Gospel? I don't think so. You would rather have learned something about their ancient Greek coulture, so you may use something in it as a step, to be able to reach them, with the good news. So what you have learned it's something useful when you come across Jewish people, you can understand and relate to them a lot better than others. That's what is the most important. I learned a lot about the ancient peoples relegions, and I can see why they were glad to hear the Gospel, and why the Gospel floorish among them ,but not among the Jews. Do you know that the GrekoRomans they knew the truth about what is happening to people after they die, they knew a lot more about those things , than the Jews, and a lot of the disciples. Many of the Jews did not even believe in life after death. Do you think those people had the need of Jesus Christ,? Even to this day , they only hope for only earthly blessings. Still today, all of the Jews who still hope for the CHRIST , they only hope for earthly matters, and not for Heavenly. And they do no see the need for a Redeemer with a Heavenly inheritance. Hope that I have not Judge. Better learn about those celebrations than the other speculative and argumentative matters, which puff up, and waist time. John after he wrote the book of Revelation talk about their going through their tribulations. They thought that they will be glorified in this life, and Judge the people of Israel. So their need to find a replacement for Judas. But not after James was beheaded. The beginning of their tribulations. The way the Jewish celebrations teach, so are the Christian holidays, they teach that Jesus is the CHRIST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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