Does the Body of Christ rule on earth in the millennium?

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

 

During the Millennium, God is dealing with Israel, not the Church.  The Church age will have ended.   Once the Church is taken out of the earth at the rapture, the Church age will have ended, and God will again turn His attention to Israel.  

   Unlike the Church, whose blessings from God are spiritual and heavenly, His promises to Israel are earthly.  

I`m sure you have recognised the adjective in the phrase, `seated on David`s throne.` It is the throne of David, or the throne of his authority.

So when the Lord said to the overcomers -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Obviously that is NOT David`s throne, otherwise the Lord would have said -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on David`s throne.`

Of course the Lord doesn`t say that to the overcomers as David`s throne, as you keep telling us (rightly) is over Israel and the nations. Thus the overcomers will be with the Lord on His very own throne in the third heaven where they will rule and reign with Him.

As to the overcomers blessings all being spiritual, the new bodies we will have like unto the Lord`s will be visible and tangible.

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

I`m sure you have recognised the adjective in the phrase, `seated on David`s throne.` It is the throne of David, or the throne of his authority.

In biblical times, they kept very detailed genealogies for each family in Israel.  Every family responsible for making sure that their genealogy was correct because that was how you determined property rights.  You had to be able to show that your property was yours by showing that it belonged to your father, and his father and his father before him, and so on.    Jesus' genealogies prove His fitness to inherit the throne and reign of His father/ancestor, King David.  

The throne of David isn't merely about authority.  It is about the most important piece of property that will exist in the Millennium.  It is going to be a physical throne on earth, not just a symbol of authority.  And Jesus will sit on that throne.   It is called the throne of David because it indicates the line of royalty fit to sit upon it. 

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So when the Lord said to the overcomers -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

But you are confusing that throne with the throne of David.  The throne of David will be a physical throne that Jesus will literally sit upon as Israel's Messiah.   We are not ALL going to literally sit on the same physical throne in Heaven.   Jesus did not sit, literally, at the Father's right hand because God the Father is omnipresent spirit.  He has no physical form.   He doesn't sit.   To "sit with the Father on his throne"  means to share His authority. Again, it is using an anthropomorphism.    Jesus is simply promising believers that they will share in His authority in the Kingdom to come.

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As to the overcomers blessings all being spiritual, the new bodies we will have like unto the Lord`s will be visible and tangible.

That doesn't make them any less spiritual.   I said that Israel's blessings are earthly and our blessings are spiritual.   I did not say that all of our blessings were not physical.   I simply stated that they are spiritual and heavenly. 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

We are not ALL going to literally sit on the same physical throne in Heaven.......  Jesus is simply promising believers that they will share in His authority in the Kingdom to come.

 

You talk about David`s throne on earth which Jesus will rule over as their Messiah and King. Then you say concerning the overcomers -

We are not ALL going to literally sit on the same physical throne in Heaven.....   Jesus is simply promising believers that they will share in His authority in the Kingdom to come.

 So...when and where is that kingdom that the believers will share with the Lord`s authority?

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You talk about David`s throne on earth which Jesus will rule over as their Messiah and King. Then you say concerning the overcomers -

We are not ALL going to literally sit on the same physical throne in Heaven.....   Jesus is simply promising believers that they will share in His authority in the Kingdom to come.

 So...when and where is that kingdom that the believers will share with the Lord`s authority?

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
(Rev 5:8-10)

Note that this is being sung by the 24 elders which you previously acknowledged represents the Church.

[Marilyn C]

21 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
(Rev 5:8-10)

Note that this is being sung by the 24 elders which you previously acknowledged represents the Church.

Ah, we finally get to the Rev. 5: 8 - 10 scriptures, specifically `we shall reign `epi` the earth.`

`epi` - Gk. word meaning superimposition ie. over, upon.

Thus to find out exactly what that is we need to look at other scriptures that relate.

Jesus will personally bring many sons, to glory.

`For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things in bringing many sons to glory..` (Heb. 2: 10)

It is the inheritance they were promised.

`Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 3 & 4)

`We give thanks to God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven...` (Col. 1:  3 & 4)

`For our citizenship is in heaven from which we also eagerly wait for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

`Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling...` (Heb. 3: 1)

So we see that our inheritance, our hope, our calling, our citizenship is in heaven. The key point is that this inheritance is incorruptible and undefiled.

We can`t say that about the millennium on earth.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Ah, we finally get to the Rev. 5: 8 - 10 scriptures, specifically `we shall reign `epi` the earth.`

`epi` - Gk. word meaning superimposition ie. over, upon.

Thus to find out exactly what that is we need to look at other scriptures that relate.

 

No, what we need to do is look at the grammar of Rev. 5:10.   The phrase "on the earth"  in Greek is in the genitive since it connected to genitive verbs.

Gr. epi tēs gēs, prepositional phrase correctly rendered "on the earth" (F. Blass and A. Debrunner, A Greek Grammar of the New Testament, p. 96, sec. 177, genitive with verbs of ruling and surpassing).

Epi with the genitive, of place, lit. on, upon, answering the question "where?" as on (the) earth ~ Arndt and Gingrich, Lexicon, p. 285

Because it is in the genitive, cannot be translated in Rev. 5:10 as "over." 

[Marilyn C]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

No, what we need to do is look at the grammar of Rev. 5:10.   The phrase "on the earth"  in Greek is in the genitive since it connected to genitive verbs.

Gr. epi tēs gēs, prepositional phrase correctly rendered "on the earth" (F. Blass and A. Debrunner, A Greek Grammar of the New Testament, p. 96, sec. 177, genitive with verbs of ruling and surpassing).

Epi with the genitive, of place, lit. on, upon, answering the question "where?" as on (the) earth ~ Arndt and Gingrich, Lexicon, p. 285

Because it is in the genitive, cannot be translated in Rev. 5:10 as "over." 

Scripture is interpreted by scripture as we know. You would have to negate all those scriptures concerning heaven to believe `on` the earth. And ....is the millennium on the earth the incorruptible and undefiled inheritance we hope for, called to, reserved in heaven for us?

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Scripture is interpreted by scripture as we know. You would have to negate all those scriptures concerning heaven to believe `on` the earth. And ....is the millennium on the earth the incorruptible and undefiled inheritance we hope for, called to, reserved in heaven for us?

When you compare Scripture with Scripture, it only works when you are comparing parallel passages.  The problem with your "comparison"  is that you are grabbing verses and applying them to an issue to which they were not designed, or meant to address. You are essentially violating context, again.   Those verses you quoted have nothing to do with the Millennium, but rather speak to our inheritance laid up for us in heaven, which we will receive when we are raptured to Heaven.   They do not speak to Rev. 5:10.    So your comparison is invalid.

[Marilyn C]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

When you compare Scripture with Scripture, it only works when you are comparing parallel passages.  The problem with your "comparison"  is that you are grabbing verses and applying them to an issue to which they were not designed, or meant to address. You are essentially violating context, again.   Those verses you quoted have nothing to do with the Millennium, but rather speak to our inheritance laid up for us in heaven, which we will receive when we are raptured to Heaven.   They do not speak to Rev. 5:10.    So your comparison is invalid.

They speak to the topic of our inheritance and where we will rule and reign.

Now you say we will receive our inheritance when we are raptured to heaven. So...why do you think we come back to this fallen, corrupt, defiled world in the millennium?

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

They speak to the topic of our inheritance and where we will rule and reign.

No, they speak to our inheritance, not where we will reign.

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Now you say we will receive our inheritance when we are raptured to heaven. So...why do you think we come back to this fallen, corrupt, defiled world in the millennium?

Well, for one thing, to fulfill Rev. 5:10, but also to serve God (I Cor. 6:2; Rev. 2:26-27)

And your other problem is the Greek Grammar in Rev. 5:10 clearly states that we will be on the earth.  That, all on its own, torpedoes your argument that we will be in heaven. That grammatical structure does not allow for any other understanding of the verse.