Guest shiloh357 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Running Gator said: Yes, I can prove that what Shiloh is saying is not sound doctrine because sound doctrine requires scriptural support. He has given none. Then you should be able to show what the Biblical doctrine actually is in reference to this issue? So far, none of the women on the thread agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Running Gator said: The bible does not equate eating a meal with sexual immorality, yet here we are. But no one said that it does. You are trying to address arguments that were never raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just now, shiloh357 said: But no one said that it does. You are trying to address arguments that were never raised. The bible does not equate eating a meal with sexual immorality but it is ok to apply I Thes 5:22 to such a thing. The bible does not equate being rich with greed but it is not ok to apply I Thes 5:22 to such thing. Explain to me why it is ok to apply I Thes 5:22 to the former but not the latter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted April 21, 2017 All this discussion reminds me of a fable I heard a long time ago: A rich man was in the process of hiring a driver, so he devised a road test to evaluate the skills of the prospective applicants for the job. The course was a winding narrow road with rocky cliffs on one side and cavernous ravines (some with no guardrails) on the other. The first applicant was very skillful and prided himself as such. He wanted to impress the man, so he drove the course in the fastest time possible. At times he would be cutting corners and coming close to the edge of the road, but his skillful driving prevailed and he completed the course in record time. The next applicant considered himself a good driver as well. He looked at the situation and decided that if he drove the course staying away from the edge as much as possible, he would have the best chance of completing it. He would not even come close to having the best elapsed time, however. Of course, the rich man ended up hiring the second applicant. We Christians (hopefully!) use Scripture as our guide for living our lives. Our goal (should be) to live as Christ honoring as we can - under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, of course. The thing is - we're individuals and not all (or even remotely) the same. So we look at a particular passage in Scripture but see it differently. We look at situations and see them differently. We just need to have the GRACE to understand each other - even when their understanding of Scripture does not exactly line up with our own. I've chosen to live my life closer to the example of the second driver in the fable above - but at the same time I'm not critical of the choices the first driver has made. Simply put, the reason I'm the second driver is that life (like the road course) can present too many surprises. And this seems especially true when we forget how susceptible we are and to over-estimate how 'skillful' we are. If we're already close to the edge, life's little surprise (when we don't see it coming) may just be enough to push us over. Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Davida said: 2 Timothy 4:3 Yep, and I hate to see it happening like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Regarding the 'appearance' of evil: While I think it is a fine idea to avoid the appearance of evil, I don't think that is what that verse is trying to say. In my opinion, it is not worried about how things look. Practical application of that, would be difficult. If I were to place a "Vote for Trump" sign on my lawn, that would have the appearance of evil, appearances are in the eye of the beholder. Tolerate some more examples, endulge me for a few moments. I went to lunch a few months ago, with a married woman, not my wife. Was that the appearance of evil? She actually asked: "What if someone sees us?". y insensitive to her concerns reply was: "Then someone will see two people eating, just like most everyone else in the restaurant is doing, that is what people usually do there!" Of course, I knew what she was referring to. The possibility existed, that someone might know that she was married, and not to me. Someone, might even be from our church! That could happen. To me though, the way do deal with people who could possibly jump to irrational, busybody conclusions, is to say: "Oh hi, why don't you come over and join us!" People doing evil, generally try to hide it, so under the cover of darkness, hiding your face, acting sneaky might give the appearance of evil. I asked her, if she thought it would be okay, if I went to lunch with her husband. She said "of course!" Well I said, what if someone says us, could then not assume, that he and I were having a homosexual affair, behind your back? She laughed, and so we had lunch. You cannot always control what others think, and sometimes I admit, I won't be bothered. It might be that I am extra sensitive to this topic, the appearance of evil, and the related "stumbling" issue. My wife and I went to the Hollywood Bowl, for a classical music concert, one summer evening, with a church group, from the church we attended. It was a Friday night. The next Sunday morning, the pastor, before the sermon, dressed down the congregation. He said that some people from our church, went to the Hollywood bowl for a concert. A couple who went, called up the pastor in distress, because they had seen another couple there, drinking champagne, right out in the open. Just so you know, that would have been withing the rules of the event. Anyway, the pastor went on to say: "To you, whoever you are, who was drinking at the event . . . How dare you! You don't do this sort of thing! Then he spoke briefly on the evils of stumbling others. He told the congregation, that he (the pastor) would never consider drinking a glass of wine in his own home, lest somehow, it might offend someone if they were to ever know. Now, to me our pastor was a bit off base. Yes, you can stumble weaker brothers and sisters, but why not instead of telling people not to appear to be doing evil, instead, educate the weaker brother and sister, to the fact that drinking a glass of wine, is not a sin. Put the focus where it really belongs (in my opinion). Now, as it turns out, that drinking couple, happened to be my wife and I. The pale, bubbly liquid that the other couple saw us drinking, was not champagne, it was Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Cider, a non-alcoholic beverage. For that, a congreation got chewed out, for what two people did, that was not wrong. Enough anecdotes, here is where I think the boat is often missed, when discussing the appearance of evil: 1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. KJV The interesting word there, that creates this issue, is the word "appearance". What happens, when you look at other translations? Let's look: New International Version reject every kind of evil. New Living Translation Stay away from every kind of evil. English Standard Version Abstain from every form of evil. Berean Study Bible Abstain from every form of evil. Berean Literal Bible Abstain from every form of evil. New American Standard Bible abstain from every form of evil. King James Bible Abstain from all appearance of evil. Holman Christian Standard Bible Stay away from every kind of evil. International Standard Version Keep away from every kind of evil. NET Bible Stay away from every form of evil. New Heart English Bible Abstain from every form of evil. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Flee from every evil matter. GOD'S WORD® Translation Keep away from every kind of evil. New American Standard 1977 abstain from every form of evil. Notice anything unique about the KJV? Now I know there are some who hold that the KJV is the only legitimate English translation. If that applies to you, believe that if you want. The Greek word for "appearance" there, is commented on below, and it is the same word, whether it is in Textus Receptus, or in Alexandrine family manuscripts. For those of you who do not know what that means, don't worry to much about it. I am just saying, that the manuscripts agree on what word is used in the Greek. The question is then, does that word mean to us, in modern English, something about how things look. I contend know, not likely. Not trying to debate any of this, but I think we might be misunderstanding what the Bible means, and causing concern to an unwarranted degree. Anyway, here is some info on the Greek word: 568 apéxō (from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2192 /éxō, "have") – properly, to have one thing by separating from (letting go of) another.568 /apéxō ("to have by separating from") includes what is gained by discarding something else (cf. Phm15). In each case, 568 /apéxō ("relate from") retains its root-meaning, "to have something, because far away from something else" (J. Thayer).[568/apexō ("have from") has two foci: away from (the source); to then have what is separated from that source. copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc. OKAY, that's all I got, thanks for tolerating me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Noodle Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, Running Gator said: Yep, and I hate to see it happening like this. That's really obvious when you start a whole other thread to carry it forth so it keeps happening like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 Omegaman 3.0 Great post, thank you for taking the time to post it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Noodle Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Running Gator said: Great post, thank you for taking the time to post it No problem A. No problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted April 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Davida said: The reason I got into this debate was, a person in disagreement with the OP, has the option of taking the edifying stance of " yes good for your choice but this is not what I believe but --nice you feel you appreciate your wife & your marriage by placing this hedge around it. Instead it was not edifying of the OP's Godly choice but to undermine it or try to cause doubt imo. If someone likes to plays Devil's advocate I will boldly counter with scripture as the Bible tells us to do. The OP asked for opinions, I gave mine. when someone ask for opinions I assume they want to hear from both those that agree and do not agree. If all he wanted as affirmation, he should have asked for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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