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Annette

Should Women Be In Leadership Positions in Church?

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Posted (edited)

I love a number of ministries led by women and know of some amazing women speakers. A friend of mine told me that it is not right for women to have that roll, tries and if they do, they should not be surprised when a man does not respond as the leader may expect. Should it matter whether a man or tries to get a similar message across?

P.S. Thank you guys for your thoughts and input. I am not sure how to answer each of you, but have been reading through what you wrote. Blessings.

Edited by Annette
Wanted to add a note to those who have answered
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Posted (edited)

On 4/22/2017 at 10:53 PM, Annette said:

I love a number of ministries led by women, and know of some amazing women speakers. A friend of mine told me that it is not right for women to have that roll,and if they do, they should not be surprised when a man does not respond as the leader may expect. Should it matter whether a man or woman trues to get a similar message across?

Does it matter to God who claims to be that which he has ordained to lead his flock? I say yes. What does the Bible say about such things and what has been the the Tradition begun with Arron. God's laws aren't there to be stylish. They are there for a reason.

Edited by Churchmouse
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In another thread I wrote in response to one who found themselves resenting pastors...

----------------------------------------

Well...

You probably need to go into ministry.

You see, Christianity has been hijacked by the Roman Empire (which morphed into Roman Catholicism).

This is not your typical Roman Catholic bashing session... so hear me out.

Better put... the Church Organism has been subjugated to the Church Organization.

I cannot find the exact quote, but I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee say that the devil realized he could not lick the Church, so through Emperor Constantine the devil joined the Church.

Compromise, disarray, false doctrines, and even the structure of clergy / laity confounds the mission of the Body Christian as much as possible.

Now your local Pastor is not the devil incarnate or to blame. Nearly all of them are doing it for the right reasons... but what they are unwittingly doing is perpetuating the hijacking of the Church.

God bless them! They have stepped up to give their lives to what they thought... what they believed with a whole heart... is the LORD's will... when 99.99% of the rest of us could not be bothered even when we learn what the truth on the subject actually is.

In the New Testament / New Covenant we are ALL priests of God.

No division between clergy and laity. That's Old Testament / Old Covenant.

Actually, God intended all in the covenant to be priests even then...

Exodus 19:6 (AV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

But Exodus 32 took place (when the Israelites not only made the calf idol and worshiped it, not only engaged in orgies, but were about to return to Egypt and to blend in with the pagans there undoing everything God had done since the calling out of Abram. That is why his response was so bloody. And the tribe that came to Moses' aid (his own the Levites) became the priestly tribe henceforth and the rest of Israel were (if you will) laity.

But in the New Covenant:

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Hearkening back to Exodus 19:6 (a kingdom of priests):

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So, don't hate / resent / despise your local preacher... pity them... try to convince them of the truth about what the Bible says.

Most people will not listen to someone who has not been thoroughly indoctrinated / programmed at a denominational seminary.

They just won't.

"Yeah... that's what the Bible says... but because it's coming from you... and not Southwestern Seminary educated... it's not true... or, it will not be received as truth... or regarded..."

Been there too many times.

What it boils down to is placing the authority in the institutions of man rather than the word of God.

I presume you have little to no biblical training. At least not enough to be comfortably in ministry starting tomorrow...

Get trained / educated by the Holy Spirit.

I am not saying you cannot get any good teaching from anyone else... but be sure to filter all things through the word of God.

2Peter 1:20-21

1Thessalonians 5:21

1John 4:1

Acts 17:11

2Timothy 3:16-17

Deuteronomy 29:29

Proverbs 25:2

Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 12:32

Proverbs 30:5-6

Revelation 22:18-19

John 3:16-18 / Ephesians 2:8-10 / Galatians 3:24-28 / Romans 7:14-8:39 / 1John 1:5-2:17

------------------------------------

What I will now add is that anyone who has the slightest qualm about women pastors / teachers / leaders needs to step up into ministry themselves!

I used to argue against women in authority in the Church (actually women usurping the authority of men in the Church) with airtight scriptural arguments that went into Greek and Hebrew and new and old testament texts and examples. And I bludgeoned female pastors every chance I got with those arguments. 

Then one day the Spirit asked me (not in words exactly) "So it's better, then, that the Gospel does not get out at all than a woman should preach it?"

I was completely undone.

And I repented on the spot.

Every time (for whatever reason) men did not step up, God filled the void with a woman. From the Prophetess Deborah to Pastor Jane today. 

IF all of us who are priests of God and called to be pastors and teachers and leaders (not all are called to these positions but all are priests) but if the quota was even 50% (being conservative here) there might be a biblical case against women usurping the authority of men... but we are woefully short of 50% people! 

I would be shocked if we had 1% of all who are called to this ministry who actually heard  the call and stepped up.

Less than 1%.

So should women preach / teach / lead?

Absotively!

And God bless them!

 

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The Bible tells us that women should not be Pastors. Although they can take a teaching roll in the Church. 1 Timothy 2:11-14

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I agree that women can teach young boys, girls and women.  We have male leaders for middle and high school, and it is needed because middle school boys can be disruptive.  The boys need a male example at this time, and many don't have one at home.  I think a couple in leadership is optimal.  

Some women are excellent teachers.  Men used to request that they join the widows class because the Bible teacher was outstanding.  However, men should be chief pastors and elders.  I don't believe it is wrong for women to serve as deacons.  There is once place where Paul urges people to welcome a woman because she had been much help to him  The Greek word for servant is deacon.  

 Rom 16:1 YLT  And I commend you to Phebe our sister -- being a ministrant of the assembly that is in Cenchrea --

 Rom 16:1 NKJV I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea,

He mentions women in other places, such as a couple, I think Pricilla and Aquilla who ministered to Apollo to teach him more correctly.  It was before a congregation that women were not to teach men or be in authority over men.  If there are no men it is evident that God may raise up a woman, especially in temporary situations till a man can be found.  But usually men appreciate and respect male leaders, so often a church with a female head pastor or bishop is a church dominated by women and few men show up, much less even fewer teenage boys.  So it is a dying church.   

I know of a missionary couple on the field in which the husband died and the wife stayed on at the request of the people.  My question is why weren't men being sent from them to a Bible School so that indigenous church leaders could take over?   That should have been the goal of missionaries who had been there for many years.  

God has used women powerfully.  These are a few I respect highly.

Amy Carmichael (1867 – 1951)
Hers is a true story of tenacity. Amy suffered with a chronic illness that initially held her back from doing missionary work, first in China, when she was rejected because of her health; then she was forced to cut short her missionary trip to Japan, and return home due to the same illness. But what others would see as disqualifying misfortune, God used to move her to the perfect place to fulfill her deep desire to serve God and others. She initially traveled to Bangalore, India for her health, but eventually began a ministry rescuing girls who were forced into prostitution by religious custom. Not only did she influence change in the lives of so many young women, and affect future work that extended to helping boys, but she also inspired other great missionaries like Jim and Elizabeth Elliott, who in turn went on to influence countless others.

Corrie Ten Boom (1892 – 1983)
“Every experience God gives us, every person He puts in our lives, is the perfect preparation for the future that only He can see.” These are the words of one of the great heroes of the faith, Corrie ten Boom. Her upbringing to love God and to love others took root in a way, that when put to the test, resulted in ultimate sacrifice. Corrie and her family helped many Jews escape the Nazi Holocaust, and ultimately they were arrested and sent to a concentration camp, where they suffered at the hands of the Nazis. She saw and experienced horrific things there, but God gave her the courage and faith to forgive those who tortured and murdered those she loved. She survived the war and became a great witness for Christ throughout the rest of her life. Of all the honors from dignitaries and nations, none were as rewarding as the one she received when she finally saw the face of her Savior on her own birthday, April 15, 1983.

Joni Eareckson Tada (1949 to present)
Known around the world by her testimonial feature film, conferences, writing, music, radio, art work and television series, Joni Eareckson Tada speaks hope into thousands of lives—not only as an advocate to the disabled community but as an encouragement and counsel to many others. A diving accident in 1967 left her, then 17, a quadriplegic in a wheelchair. After two years of rehab, she overcame with new skills and a fresh determination to help others in similar situations. She founded “Joni and Friends” in 1979 to provide Christ-centered programs to special-needs families, as well as training to churches. Joni survived stage 3 breast cancer in 2010, yet keeps a very active ministry schedule. Her lifelong passion is to bring the Gospel to the world’s one billion people with disabilities.

 

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2 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

The man was made first and was given the task of keeping he garden.  He was not doing his job effectively, as we read that Adam was with Eve at the time of the deception.  Adam knew full well, but allowed his wife to be deceived by the serpent, and then partook of the fruit himself after her.  It seems to be a pattern since then... men not stepping up to their God-given roles and the family suffering because of it.  It is clear from Scripture that God's plan is for the man to lead his family in the ways of God.  It is also clear that if there is a godly man who can and will fill a leadership role, it should be done by such a man.  But there are many examples in the Bible (both Old and New Testament) of women being used of God in roles such as judge, prophetess, deaconess, teachers, disciples, pastors, etc.  Paul himself attended home churches that were led by women.  This is why the Word of God should be rightly divided and not dissected for Scriptures to be taken out of context and used to support their favored or preferred views.

Being the garden was invoked in this message, with regard to leadership roles, Adam failed miserably in that respect. And due to that caused the downfall of the human race to befall. 

 

I think when the scriptures tell us we cannot know the mind of God because he does not think as we do, nor can we think as God thinks, of course, that our prejudices being attached to God and his will is wrong thinking. And further, that we believe God would discriminate against a woman is not evident in the actions of his son who had women in his company. And women who delivered the good news to the world after he ascended to Heaven. Which in those times would be like unto preaching. Just as Jesus did when he gave his teachings. He was preaching. 

We agree God doesn't think as we do, because we say that's what scripture says. Then we argue God discriminates like we do and that isn't in scripture. That's a little odd I think. 

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Women Prophets in the Bible

 

God's will calls women to be pastors. We know this because there are successful blessed pastors in this world. None are so blind as those who refuse to see. There is no scripture that says God will never call a woman to prophecy . God called women as prophets but there's a segment of society that thinks God would not call women to preach what had arrived as prophecy fulfilled. That is their error and nothing will move them from it. Not even the truth that Paul's letters were to the churches of the time. His letters to the churches he founded. That is why they are demarcated as pastoral epistles. A pastor's letters to the churches under his management. And even then , Paul wasn't saying women cannot preach. 

All that has been said time and again and does not bear repeating when it is ignored repeatedly. 

The mistake the world makes is to imagine God has human faults. God calls women to preach. Those who do not accept that will have to live with that idea that God thinks women aren't able to preach his word after he knew they were worthy of his son dying for their sins. 

Why argue with those who limit God to their prejudice? 

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19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Well...

i, as a woman, and was put in situation, that i had to act like man, almost 10 years, still believe, because i have some experience, what means to be a man (just some) and having several man-friends and having a huge interest - who is a man ( :) ) and talking about it with God, now are very sure - man  do that job better, in many ways. 

but i am agree with you - there are women, who are good in that position also. if God did choose some women to lead whole nation (even married), there had to be a good reason. and i DO believe - God KNOWS what He is doing , so i trust Him, when He says - i make no difference between man and woman.

so +1 from me

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On 4/22/2017 at 11:11 PM, Churchmouse said:

Does it matter to God who claims to be that which he has ordained to lead his flock? I say yes. What does the Bible say about such things and what has been the the Tradition begun with Arron. God's laws aren't there to be stylish. They are there for a reason.

It's very simple... women are not to be over men in the church. There are many wonderful teachers that are women.  I have no problem with that.  However to be leaders, such as pastors, deacons.... NO.

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1 minute ago, Willa said:

The topic was street evangelism concerning husband and wife teems.  The person I referred to would never become involved in anything occult.  Perhaps in Europe there is a movement to that effect but not in North America. He would stay away from New Age as well.  We have strong teaching against that in our church and I know him personally.  So this is not a wide spread problem.  But I would like to know where the people involved in new age are trained since my granddaughter is applying to attend in Europe.   

Pricilla and Aquilla are an example of a husband wife team.

 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/26/2017 at 0:04 AM, JohnD said:

In another thread I wrote in response to one who found themselves resenting pastors...

----------------------------------------

Well...

You probably need to go into ministry.

You see, Christianity has been hijacked by the Roman Empire (which morphed into Roman Catholicism).

This is not your typical Roman Catholic bashing session... so hear me out.

Better put... the Church Organism has been subjugated to the Church Organization.

I cannot find the exact quote, but I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee say that the devil realized he could not lick the Church, so through Emperor Constantine the devil joined the Church.

Compromise, disarray, false doctrines, and even the structure of clergy / laity confounds the mission of the Body Christian as much as possible.

Now your local Pastor is not the devil incarnate or to blame. Nearly all of them are doing it for the right reasons... but what they are unwittingly doing is perpetuating the hijacking of the Church.

God bless them! They have stepped up to give their lives to what they thought... what they believed with a whole heart... is the LORD's will... when 99.99% of the rest of us could not be bothered even when we learn what the truth on the subject actually is.

In the New Testament / New Covenant we are ALL priests of God.

No division between clergy and laity. That's Old Testament / Old Covenant.

Actually, God intended all in the covenant to be priests even then...

Exodus 19:6 (AV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

But Exodus 32 took place (when the Israelites not only made the calf idol and worshiped it, not only engaged in orgies, but were about to return to Egypt and to blend in with the pagans there undoing everything God had done since the calling out of Abram. That is why his response was so bloody. And the tribe that came to Moses' aid (his own the Levites) became the priestly tribe henceforth and the rest of Israel were (if you will) laity.

But in the New Covenant:

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Hearkening back to Exodus 19:6 (a kingdom of priests):

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So, don't hate / resent / despise your local preacher... pity them... try to convince them of the truth about what the Bible says.

Most people will not listen to someone who has not been thoroughly indoctrinated / programmed at a denominational seminary.

They just won't.

"Yeah... that's what the Bible says... but because it's coming from you... and not Southwestern Seminary educated... it's not true... or, it will not be received as truth... or regarded..."

Been there too many times.

What it boils down to is placing the authority in the institutions of man rather than the word of God.

I presume you have little to no biblical training. At least not enough to be comfortably in ministry starting tomorrow...

Get trained / educated by the Holy Spirit.

I am not saying you cannot get any good teaching from anyone else... but be sure to filter all things through the word of God.

2Peter 1:20-21

1Thessalonians 5:21

1John 4:1

Acts 17:11

2Timothy 3:16-17

Deuteronomy 29:29

Proverbs 25:2

Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 12:32

Proverbs 30:5-6

Revelation 22:18-19

John 3:16-18 / Ephesians 2:8-10 / Galatians 3:24-28 / Romans 7:14-8:39 / 1John 1:5-2:17

------------------------------------

What I will now add is that anyone who has the slightest qualm about women pastors / teachers / leaders needs to step up into ministry themselves!

I used to argue against women in authority in the Church (actually women usurping the authority of men in the Church) with airtight scriptural arguments that went into Greek and Hebrew and new and old testament texts and examples. And I bludgeoned female pastors every chance I got with those arguments. 

Then one day the Spirit asked me (not in words exactly) "So it's better, then, that the Gospel does not get out at all than a woman should preach it?"

I was completely undone.

And I repented on the spot.

Every time (for whatever reason) men did not step up, God filled the void with a woman. From the Prophetess Deborah to Pastor Jane today. 

IF all of us who are priests of God and called to be pastors and teachers and leaders (not all are called to these positions but all are priests) but if the quota was even 50% (being conservative here) there might be a biblical case against women usurping the authority of men... but we are woefully short of 50% people! 

I would be shocked if we had 1% of all who are called to this ministry who actually heard  the call and stepped up.

Less than 1%.

So should women preach / teach / lead?

Absotively!

And God bless them!

 

John,

i just found this post of yours and oh my, it is BEAUTIFUL!  I especially love your Damascus road experience with the Lord showing you that you are serving yourself, not Him in this matter.  That is a powerful testimony.  

 I believe  God showed me the same thing when I started asking questions, such as why people don't follow the 4th commandment anymore?  Questions like that took me down a path I had not expected. Ultimately it was revealed to me the fullness of what being one in Christ means, that there is neither male nor female, Jew or Gentile....IN CHRIST!  And that God gives gifts and talents to ALL, and that they should not be buried. 

Like you, this revelation freed me up from previous biases and since then I too believe God wants me to be his ambassador on this topic.  I know this is subjective so maybe it is not of God. Nevertheless, I live and follow my conscience. 

To God be the glory,

spock

Edited by Spock
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