Should Women Be In Leadership Positions in Church?

[JohnD]

2 Peter 3:12 (AV)
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

IF this means time in this life can be shortened (by the Lord's return being sooner)...

And I use the IF premise...

Then WHAT pray tell [could] bring this about?

[JohnD]

I often wondered if believers took their calling as seriously as people like the Apostle Paul did, how long would history have to have been to bring in all who would believe?

The Bible clearly teaches that God knows ahead of time who will believe.

And it's not God's character to unnecessarily sprinkle believers throughout an extended history, if super evangelism could do the job in a generation of two. The untold number of people going to hell along the way who would otherwise never have had to be born... to perpetuate the human race over an extended period of time... 

Ah, guess you guys are right... no women preachers...

?

[Willa]

I agree that women can teach young boys, girls and women.  We have male leaders for middle and high school, and it is needed because middle school boys can be disruptive.  The boys need a male example at this time, and many don't have one at home.  I think a couple in leadership is optimal.  

Some women are excellent teachers.  Men used to request that they join the widows class because the Bible teacher was outstanding.  However, men should be chief pastors and elders.  I don't believe it is wrong for women to serve as deacons.  There is once place where Paul urges people to welcome a woman because she had been much help to him  The Greek word for servant is deacon.  

 Rom 16:1 YLT  And I commend you to Phebe our sister -- being a ministrant of the assembly that is in Cenchrea --

 Rom 16:1 NKJV I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea,

He mentions women in other places, such as a couple, I think Pricilla and Aquilla who ministered to Apollo to teach him more correctly.  It was before a congregation that women were not to teach men or be in authority over men.  If there are no men it is evident that God may raise up a woman, especially in temporary situations till a man can be found.  But usually men appreciate and respect male leaders, so often a church with a female head pastor or bishop is a church dominated by women and few men show up, much less even fewer teenage boys.  So it is a dying church.   

I know of a missionary couple on the field in which the husband died and the wife stayed on at the request of the people.  My question is why weren't men being sent from them to a Bible School so that indigenous church leaders could take over?   That should have been the goal of missionaries who had been there for many years.  

God has used women powerfully.  These are a few I respect highly.

Amy Carmichael (1867 – 1951)
Hers is a true story of tenacity. Amy suffered with a chronic illness that initially held her back from doing missionary work, first in China, when she was rejected because of her health; then she was forced to cut short her missionary trip to Japan, and return home due to the same illness. But what others would see as disqualifying misfortune, God used to move her to the perfect place to fulfill her deep desire to serve God and others. She initially traveled to Bangalore, India for her health, but eventually began a ministry rescuing girls who were forced into prostitution by religious custom. Not only did she influence change in the lives of so many young women, and affect future work that extended to helping boys, but she also inspired other great missionaries like Jim and Elizabeth Elliott, who in turn went on to influence countless others.

Corrie Ten Boom (1892 – 1983)
“Every experience God gives us, every person He puts in our lives, is the perfect preparation for the future that only He can see.” These are the words of one of the great heroes of the faith, Corrie ten Boom. Her upbringing to love God and to love others took root in a way, that when put to the test, resulted in ultimate sacrifice. Corrie and her family helped many Jews escape the Nazi Holocaust, and ultimately they were arrested and sent to a concentration camp, where they suffered at the hands of the Nazis. She saw and experienced horrific things there, but God gave her the courage and faith to forgive those who tortured and murdered those she loved. She survived the war and became a great witness for Christ throughout the rest of her life. Of all the honors from dignitaries and nations, none were as rewarding as the one she received when she finally saw the face of her Savior on her own birthday, April 15, 1983.

Joni Eareckson Tada (1949 to present)
Known around the world by her testimonial feature film, conferences, writing, music, radio, art work and television series, Joni Eareckson Tada speaks hope into thousands of lives—not only as an advocate to the disabled community but as an encouragement and counsel to many others. A diving accident in 1967 left her, then 17, a quadriplegic in a wheelchair. After two years of rehab, she overcame with new skills and a fresh determination to help others in similar situations. She founded “Joni and Friends” in 1979 to provide Christ-centered programs to special-needs families, as well as training to churches. Joni survived stage 3 breast cancer in 2010, yet keeps a very active ministry schedule. Her lifelong passion is to bring the Gospel to the world’s one billion people with disabilities.

 

[Guest BacKaran]

God never goofs, He uses whom He chooses. Men are used more than woman. Women were used for a specific occasion or event. All are given gifts but not all should be teachers or preachers, didn't matter is it's men or women.

[Eha]

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

Well...

i, as a woman, and was put in situation, that i had to act like man, almost 10 years, still believe, because i have some experience, what means to be a man (just some) and having several man-friends and having a huge interest - who is a man (  ) and talking about it with God, now are very sure - man  do that job better, in many ways. 

but i am agree with you - there are women, who are good in that position also. if God did choose some women to lead whole nation (even married), there had to be a good reason. and i DO believe - God KNOWS what He is doing , so i trust Him, when He says - i make no difference between man and woman.

so +1 from me

[Eha]

Just now, eileenhat said:

so she forsook God and in doing so brought forth a harsher judgement.

you think so? 

woman have to suffer birthpangs.

because of Adam WHOLE EARTH WAS CURSED...

what is harsher - suffer by yourself or make suffer whole earth?

Father the God IS JUST, then  WHY ADAM's deed bring curse to whole earth?

[Eha]

3 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

women are equal to men in all things, when that was never true, right from the start.

no, they were not equal - man, by plan of God, had to bring home food, build home,  be good father to children - discipline, parenthood - most jobs were put on men... 

and that "poor" woman have to be just helper at home...

that is, what were plan of God. Women were like flowers, that had to been to care of, like a fragile crystal.

that is not so, doesnt mean, Father is just and had good plan..

put Bible also say, that listen yours mother is good for you in many way's - especially for men...

women in fact, were put in "vase" with respect and love from God the Father.

btw, God still take care of me, like i am something very... very fragile. He always find gentle words for me. He WERE NEVER UNJUST TO ME, NEVER DID PUT ME SITUATION, THAT WERE UNEQUAL!

[Eha]

13 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

'why' women are throughout the entire Bible are treated as subservient

i think there is a GOOD reason for it. and i REALLY BELIEVE< THAT FATHER IS JUST. so, if you want more... go on!

stop speaking harsh words against God and start study - how to be equal with men. 

because God NEVER say -it is not possible.

because God wants us to suffer less (feeling guilty for whole world or suffer pain for several hours... i think God did spare us, women A LOT!!!)

and you do not like it - dont mean, we are not equal to men.

God say opposite!

Ro 2: ¹¹ For God shows no partiality.

btw, i was in place of men for 10 years. and i totally hate it!!! you were too? no? dont ask it too... my advice.

 

reminder from God just seconds ago - "many women are now in the place of men - single mothers. there is not much happy of them about it. but they have chance to learn out, what "being a man" really means.."

Edited April 27, 2017 by Eha

[Churchmouse]

22 hours ago, JohnD said:

In another thread I wrote in response to one who found themselves resenting pastors...

----------------------------------------

Well...

You probably need to go into ministry.

You see, Christianity has been hijacked by the Roman Empire (which morphed into Roman Catholicism).

This is not your typical Roman Catholic bashing session... so hear me out.

Better put... the Church Organism has been subjugated to the Church Organization.

I cannot find the exact quote, but I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee say that the devil realized he could not lick the Church, so through Emperor Constantine the devil joined the Church.

Compromise, disarray, false doctrines, and even the structure of clergy / laity confounds the mission of the Body Christian as much as possible.

Now your local Pastor is not the devil incarnate or to blame. Nearly all of them are doing it for the right reasons... but what they are unwittingly doing is perpetuating the hijacking of the Church.

God bless them! They have stepped up to give their lives to what they thought... what they believed with a whole heart... is the LORD's will... when 99.99% of the rest of us could not be bothered even when we learn what the truth on the subject actually is.

In the New Testament / New Covenant we are ALL priests of God.

No division between clergy and laity. That's Old Testament / Old Covenant.

Actually, God intended all in the covenant to be priests even then...

Exodus 19:6 (AV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

But Exodus 32 took place (when the Israelites not only made the calf idol and worshiped it, not only engaged in orgies, but were about to return to Egypt and to blend in with the pagans there undoing everything God had done since the calling out of Abram. That is why his response was so bloody. And the tribe that came to Moses' aid (his own the Levites) became the priestly tribe henceforth and the rest of Israel were (if you will) laity.

But in the New Covenant:

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Hearkening back to Exodus 19:6 (a kingdom of priests):

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So, don't hate / resent / despise your local preacher... pity them... try to convince them of the truth about what the Bible says.

Most people will not listen to someone who has not been thoroughly indoctrinated / programmed at a denominational seminary.

They just won't.

"Yeah... that's what the Bible says... but because it's coming from you... and not Southwestern Seminary educated... it's not true... or, it will not be received as truth... or regarded..."

Been there too many times.

What it boils down to is placing the authority in the institutions of man rather than the word of God.

I presume you have little to no biblical training. At least not enough to be comfortably in ministry starting tomorrow...

Get trained / educated by the Holy Spirit.

I am not saying you cannot get any good teaching from anyone else... but be sure to filter all things through the word of God.

2Peter 1:20-21

1Thessalonians 5:21

1John 4:1

Acts 17:11

2Timothy 3:16-17

Deuteronomy 29:29

Proverbs 25:2

Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 12:32

Proverbs 30:5-6

Revelation 22:18-19

John 3:16-18 / Ephesians 2:8-10 / Galatians 3:24-28 / Romans 7:14-8:39 / 1John 1:5-2:17

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What I will now add is that anyone who has the slightest qualm about women pastors / teachers / leaders needs to step up into ministry themselves!

I used to argue against women in authority in the Church (actually women usurping the authority of men in the Church) with airtight scriptural arguments that went into Greek and Hebrew and new and old testament texts and examples. And I bludgeoned female pastors every chance I got with those arguments. 

Then one day the Spirit asked me (not in words exactly) "So it's better, then, that the Gospel does not get out at all than a woman should preach it?"

I was completely undone.

And I repented on the spot.

Every time (for whatever reason) men did not step up, God filled the void with a woman. From the Prophetess Deborah to Pastor Jane today. 

IF all of us who are priests of God and called to be pastors and teachers and leaders (not all are called to these positions but all are priests) but if the quota was even 50% (being conservative here) there might be a biblical case against women usurping the authority of men... but we are woefully short of 50% people! 

I would be shocked if we had 1% of all who are called to this ministry who actually heard  the call and stepped up.

Less than 1%.

So should women preach / teach / lead?

Absotively!

And God bless them!

 

All of these scriptures and yet nothing about women becoming preachers and then you make demands that we should step up and minister if we choose to follow The Bible and tradition has taught rather than listen to you.

God does not call us all to preach and If one is not called to preach what makes you think  you can make demands to force the issue. Do you also demand of God that he gives all who you demand to step up the authority to preach? God calls on us all to do diligence in his service according to the skills and talents he has given us.  It is he who picks those who will lead his flock and it was he who gave the priesthood to men for reasons of his own. If you can refute that, by direct scripture then please do so. If not this is merely your opinion and since it is to me not scriptural based I will leave it where I found it and wait for your response.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Churchmouse

[RustyAngeL]

On 4/22/2017 at 11:11 PM, Churchmouse said:

Does it matter to God who claims to be that which he has ordained to lead his flock? I say yes. What does the Bible say about such things and what has been the the Tradition begun with Arron. God's laws aren't there to be stylish. They are there for a reason.

It's very simple... women are not to be over men in the church. There are many wonderful teachers that are women.  I have no problem with that.  However to be leaders, such as pastors, deacons.... NO.