Church... {sigh}

[walla299]

On 4/23/2017 at 8:29 AM, JohnD said:

< snip >

I know... disorder and pandemonium would reign... because the kingdom of priests have not been taught!

So now I prepare to sit and hold my peace while we go through the motions yet again of worship fellowship and placate the incurable religious nature of fallen mankind in a setting of a country club with the phony pretense of joy to see each other in the name of keeping up the membership rolls...

{SIGH}

Does anyone else get this / feel this?

Anyone?

I get some of that. I've had enough bad experiences with American churches that I could probably write a book, but that probably would not be edifying for anyone. I've had the "high and mighty" look down on me because I didn't "measure up" to some "standard" they had fixed in their minds - and you know what. That's their problem, not mine. Finding a new church isn't something most of us would call fun. Imagine being in your mid-fifties and single. Its even less fun - unless someone asks if you're gay. (Yes, that actually happened more that once! First one who asked that was a 90 year old grandmother.)

I've been to a lot of churches over the years due to my military career and other jobs that had me moving a lot. Over all most folks were pretty decent and we were able to worship the Lord without any unnecessary drama. I learned a few things along the way, like church isn't about me, its about the Lord. Believers need each other just like the embers in a fire. Take an ember out and set it on the hearth and it will die out on its own. Put it back and it will glow again. Same thing for us as believers. 

I've visited churches where someone stood up in the front and said, "Let's all just worship the Lord." Chaos did reign, like someone emptied a mental health ward, skipped the meds, and amped 'em all up on meth first before letting 'em loose. I left one place because the hair on the back of my neck was standing up in a way that let me know someone other than God was being worshiped in there. The 2 mile walk to the nearest bus stop on an August morning in Phoenix (it was already 102 by that time) was nice in comparison. Its easier to make a quiet escape if you sit in the back or near an exit when visiting a new church. Just in case things go off the rails.

Bottom line is if you can't find a place in the local church to serve others - find another church. There's plenty out there that could use the help in the Lord's work. Not all churches are bad in my area, not by a long shot, but it sure took a long time to find the one the Lord wanted me in.

I'm currently going to a church that was literally the last one on my list. At the time I didn't have a car so getting around on mass transit wasn't easy because everything is so spread out here. I was so fed up with "modern, relevant, or whatever buzzword" churches in my area that I was about to give up in sheer disgust. I let the Lord know it too. I was almost done looking for a church because I'd been at that game for about 18 months and I'd had it. Disgust with hearing the same music in a worship service as I heard on the Christian radio stations, and the Bible presented as something other than the Word of God just put the disgust-o-meter somewhere off the scale. Fed up? Yeah. In ways I still cannot describe to this day. 

I didn't really feel like riding a mountain bike 6 miles to church that morning but went anyway. Surprisingly enough no one freaked out about this guy showing up to church in a t-shirt, cargo shorts, and mountain bike on Sunday morning. So I showed up to church even though it was hot and I really didn't want to, and I'm still going to the same church today. Its small. Small enough that there are no "programs" but the building is paid for, and just about everyone is involved in a local ministry of some kind like food banks or shelters and things like that. Several others are volunteering at a local Christ centered drug rehab. The Lord has found ways for all of us to serve the community without a mega-church and I think that's a good thing.

Note: Sorry, didn't intend to write a novel.

 

[FresnoJoe]

21 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

My comments had to do with people who are lifted up in so much self-righteous pride....
that they think they are just too knowledgeable or too spiritual....
to rub shoulders with those that they perceive....
to be less than them....

Thanks Brother.... With Abba Father Loving On Us

Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. James 1:16-17 (New International Version)

And  With The His SON Calling Us

Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” Matthew 11:2830 (New Living Translation)

And The Spirit Filling

and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. Romans 5:5 (English Standard Version)

Us

And because you are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" Galatians 4:6 (Berean Literal Bible)

We Should Do Just Fine

"He raises the poor from the dust, He lifts the needy from the ash heap To make them sit with nobles, And inherit a seat of honor; For the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, And He set the world on them. 1 Samuel 2:8 (New American Standard Bible)

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[JohnD]

4 hours ago, Davida said:

Are you feeling frustrated because of wanting a platform to teach John?  Maybe you can work with your Pastor and teach a men's Bible class or something? Or you could aways organize a group Bible study during the week in your home, that you collectively pic a scripture or topic or whatever way you want to do in your home or rotate places and invite a few people to share in the teaching and discussions.

I kind of feel Church is made up of all the people so that it is not just the Pastor's issue it is a collective issue. I also believe Church is what you make of it and there are many ways for people to make it a better place.  At my Church , the Pastor teaches expository way- I like that the best and find the time goes too fast and is very interesting. I wouldn't attend a phony church because to me it is all about the Bible teaching and having praise filled worship to the LORD.    I have to disagree with you on your feelings about the devil having bigger things to do.  I think the devil does try to muck with  people and influence them not want to go to Church or to have and give every excuse. The devil doesn't personally attend but he sends his spirits to interfere with God's people in real way when he can. We must pray and ask for God's protection after all we meet in Churches or collectively so we can serve the Lord not our selves, we must get fed but we are there to aid the Body and to serve in the greater community.  Anyway that's the way I look at it, don't know if that was of any help to you. Take care John.
 

 

Just want to share that we are all priests of God (who believe in Christ Jesus) and that the biblically proven Holy Spirit interpretation of the Bible is the only tradition we should abide by (and the divisions in the body Christian would vanish in no time).

[Guest shiloh357]

8 hours ago, JohnD said:

Just want to share that we are all priests of God (who believe in Christ Jesus) and that the biblically proven Holy Spirit interpretation of the Bible is the only tradition we should abide by (and the divisions in the body Christian would vanish in no time).

"Holy Spirit" interpretation of the Bible?  Do you have any idea how many false teachings are blamed on the Holy Spirit?  The Holy Spirit is often exploited by false teachers who want to pull the rug out from under the feet of anyone who challenges their teaching.

[JohnD]

13 hours ago, Davida said:

I hear you John , but I don't think that is what that scripture is referring to. All of us are not authorized on earth to Lead and teach the body.

The mission is the evangelization of the lost.

Not all play the same part in the mission.

Not all have the same calling or spiritual gifts.

But rather than subscribing / submitting to a human traditions based organization that calls itself the body of Christ... the organism that actually is the body of Christ believers should be spreading out the Gospel like wild fire rather than clumping up in country club settings behind closed doors with like minded people of the traditions of man.

Mark 7:13 (NIV84)
13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

This has been the greatest hindrance to the Gospel in 1900+ years.

[JohnD]

BTW I [SAID] biblically proven Holy Spirit interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (NIV84)
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:1 (NIV84)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Acts 17:11 (NIV84)
11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

2 Timothy 3:16–17 (NIV84)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[JohnD]

Preaching / teaching could not interest me less.

I want no following.

Follow Christ.

Interpret the Bible via the biblically proven Holy Spirit interpretation and there will no longer be division in the Church organism.

And the Church organization will just be an empty shell.

[JohnD]

19 minutes ago, Davida said:

Ok, well go ahead get into missions or get out to Speakers Corner in your City or another and evangelize in the street. Personally,  I don't attend a country club. You are welcome to go join an assembly of believers  like NT church according to 2Tim or just criticize it is up to you.

Well since you are making such a point of this...

And you don't know what my calling and ministry are or what I do or do not do (which is borderline judging with improper judgment).

What Church do you attend?

Are it's beliefs in strict keeping with scripture?

Do they teach God the Father created the heaven and the earth (for example)?

The nature of God... is it a subject often taught or avoided?

Do they teach a specific eschatology or do they leave that up to individual interpretations?

Salvation... faith plus ___________________ ?

Who reaches out most to your neighbors your Church or the Jehovah's Witnesses / Mormons?

I could go on...

I am not trying to make you or anyone dissatisfied with anything... just trying to get people to realize who we are in Christ... 

We're not pew packers but world changers for Christ.

[JohnD]

1 Peter 2:3–9 (NIV84)
3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him—
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,”
8 and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

 

[JohnD]

1 Peter 2:3–9 (NIV84)
3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him—
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,”
8 and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.