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Is God responsible for Satan's actions?


spiderman1917

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1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

Your experience with demons is not being challenged here. What is being stated is that the Bible term "Nephilim" merely means giant - and is always about humans.

Never about half-humans... never about demons.

and I would say that is simply not the reality of it.

Every single civilization with written history tells the same story.....   why should we think the Bible is saying something different....   it was the world thought cosmology at the time the bible was written and it was thought not to need great detail to get the point across.    Genesis  pre flood is just a very quick overview and has almost no detail to it.

People understood what was being said at the time so there was no need of details.   

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6 minutes ago, other one said:

and I would say that is simply not the reality of it.

Every single civilization with written history tells the same story.....   why should we think the Bible is saying something different....   it was the world thought cosmology at the time the bible was written and it was thought not to need great detail to get the point across.    Genesis  pre flood is just a very quick overview and has almost no detail to it.

People understood what was being said at the time so there was no need of details.   

When reading the Bible - pagan cultures are not the "standard" by which the Bible text is to be judged or interpreted. Exegesis demands that we look at the text, the author and other uses of the same idea in the other parts of the Bible. In this case the term "sons of God" as we see in Genesis 6 -- never ... ever... refers to demons or fallen angels. Not once in all of scripture. And in John 1 we see the term explicitly applied to the people of God. And there are many examples of Nephilim in the OT - not one is ever said to be a demon or half-demon.

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1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

When reading the Bible - pagan cultures are not the "standard" by which the Bible text is to be judged or interpreted. Exegesis demands that we look at the text, the author and other uses of the same idea in the other parts of the Bible. In this case the term "sons of God" as we see in Genesis 6 -- never ... ever... refers to demons or fallen angels. Not once in all of scripture. And in John 1 we see the term explicitly applied to the people of God. And there are many examples of Nephilim in the OT - not one is ever said to be a demon or half-demon.

are you serious.....   I guess the sons of God in Job that sang and shouted when God laid the foundations of the world....    man I'd like to know who those people were...

no human was refered to as son of God except Adam and Jesus until it was made possible for us to be born spiritually.....   then and only then do humans become "Sons of God".

 

John 1:12

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
KJV

 

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14 hours ago, other one said:

are you serious.....   I guess the sons of God in Job that sang and shouted when God laid the foundations of the world....    man I'd like to know who those people were...

The sons of God in Job are not half-humans, are not demons, are not fallen angels, but ARE sinless beings.

14 hours ago, other one said:

no human was refered to as son of God except Adam and Jesus

 

Until you read John 1:12 -

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

14 hours ago, other one said:

 

until it was made possible for us to be born spiritually.....   then and only then do humans become "Sons of God".

Humans were saved in the OT under the ONE Gospel of Gal 1:6-9 the same as in the NT. Thus both Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Matt 17 in glorified form. We all knew that right?

"The GOSPEL was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:7.

"Abraham rejoiced to see My day - he SAW it and was glad" John 8

"The Gospel was preached to us JUST as it was to THEM also" Hebrews 4:2

"They all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that Rock was Christ" 1 Cor 10:1-4

Christ says to Nicodemus before the cross - that a teacher of the OT should already be well informed about the New Birth.

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humans were not reborn spiritually in the Old Testament.

 

Prior to making that possible, sons of God were heavenly beings that most people refer to as Angels.....   not all angels are the same but in general we the general thought process is what most people call them....    No human but Adam was called son of God until Jesus got here....

The sons of God are not Nephilim as you say......    but they are the sons of the sons of God, but they are not of God and were pure evil to the core.

According to the wording of the Septuagint the Giants will rise again and we'll know which of us is correct.....   I pray that I will not have to be alive wo witness that.

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On 4/28/2017 at 5:02 PM, spiderman1917 said:

2 Corinthians 4:4New Living Translation (NLT)
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News."

Wouldn't you say that the Devil can't be god of this world without God willing him to be God of this world? Also, can he blind the minds of those who don't believe, without God giving him permission to?  That Scripture was written after Satan was already defeated.

In the OT, Satan needed God's permission to kill Jobs family and afflict Job with disease, so God was responsible for Satan's actions against Job, no?  So, he needed God's permission even before Christ defeated him on the cross.  How much more does he need God's permission today? If Satan is going to blind people's minds, i'm guessing he can't do so without God's permission and willing it.

Could Satan be God of this world without God wanting him to be God of this world?

If your answer is, no, God doesn't want Satan to be God of this world, that doesn't make sense, because if God didn't want it, he could restrain Satan and cast him and all Demons into hell the day Jesus died on the cross.  So, it seems clear, the answer is yes, for now God wants Satan to be god of this world.  God wants the Antichrist to be in power for a time as well.

Scripture says that Jesus defeated Satan at the cross.  It's done!  It's Finished!  The victory is accomplished.  Satan is essentially a prisoner, a defeated foe, disarmed!  He can do what his victorious Master allows him to do. 

It also seems that the answer is yes, God shares responsibility for Satan's actions.  How can Satan tempt someone, or put an antichrist in power, or do anything without God giving him permission to?  He's a defeated foe!  Is God in any way limited in what he can do to stop the Devil?  Of course not! 

 

God is never responsible for what "free will" agents decide to do with their free will.

Tho He certainly gets blamed for it.

The fact is, you'll just have to wait till you meet Jesus to find out some answers to the "whys", regarding some things you might have questions about if you go deep enough into the type question you are thinking about, as you are really only tapping on the surface.

Sometimes, the answer for now, and the only answer you'll get about some things related to God and things that happen or have happened is...."as the heavens are to the earth, so are God's ways and thought's higher and above ours".

Our Human intellect, no matter how deep or well developed, just cannot fathom some things that God has done or will do .

But when we are "changed", we will THEN understand all mysteries.

Till then, its fine to speculate and have an opinion, but its never correct to Judge God for what He has done, or will do, as God is right always, no matter what He does, and no matter how we personally view it or feel about it.

God is perfect, His ways are perfect.

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Quote

Till then, its fine to speculate and have an opinion, but its never correct to Judge God for what He has done, or will do, as God is right always, no matter what He does, and no matter how we personally view it or feel about it.

God is perfect, His ways are perfect.

Behold

:amen:                                                                      I agree...it is not only NEVER correct but simply irreverent................With love-in Christ,Kwik

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1 hour ago, Behold said:

God is never responsible for what "free will" agents decide to do with their free will.

Tho He certainly gets blamed for it.

The fact is, you'll just have to wait till you meet Jesus to find out some answers to the "whys", regarding some things you might have questions about if you go deep enough into the type question you are thinking about, as you are really only tapping on the surface.

Sometimes, the answer for now, and the only answer you'll get about some things related to God and things that happen or have happened is...."as the heavens are to the earth, so are God's ways and thought's higher and above ours".

Our Human intellect, no matter how deep or well developed, just cannot fathom some things that God has done or will do .

But when we are "changed", we will THEN understand all mysteries.

Till then, its fine to speculate and have an opinion, but its never correct to Judge God for what He has done, or will do, as God is right always, no matter what He does, and no matter how we personally view it or feel about it.

God is perfect, His ways are perfect.

God still could remove the sinful inclination.  Some people are tormented with a chronic desire to commit evil deeds.  Others simply don't have the inclination.

Only God can remove the evil desire.  Those inner demons don't have to be there.  God wants them there or he would make them leave

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On 4/28/2017 at 6:02 PM, spiderman1917 said:

2 Corinthians 4:4New Living Translation (NLT)
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News."

Wouldn't you say that the Devil can't be god of this world without God willing him to be God of this world? Also, can he blind the minds of those who don't believe, without God giving him permission to?  That Scripture was written after Satan was already defeated.

In the OT, Satan needed God's permission to kill Jobs family and afflict Job with disease, so God was responsible for Satan's actions against Job, no?  So, he needed God's permission even before Christ defeated him on the cross.  How much more does he need God's permission today? If Satan is going to blind people's minds, i'm guessing he can't do so without God's permission and willing it.

Could Satan be God of this world without God wanting him to be God of this world?

If your answer is, no, God doesn't want Satan to be God of this world, that doesn't make sense, because if God didn't want it, he could restrain Satan and cast him and all Demons into hell the day Jesus died on the cross.  So, it seems clear, the answer is yes, for now God wants Satan to be god of this world.  God wants the Antichrist to be in power for a time as well.

Scripture says that Jesus defeated Satan at the cross.  It's done!  It's Finished!  The victory is accomplished.  Satan is essentially a prisoner, a defeated foe, disarmed!  He can do what his victorious Master allows him to do. 

It also seems that the answer is yes, God shares responsibility for Satan's actions.  How can Satan tempt someone, or put an antichrist in power, or do anything without God giving him permission to?  He's a defeated foe!  Is God in any way limited in what he can do to stop the Devil?  Of course not! 

 

Yes. 

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Would Satan be the god of this world if humans didn't back him. Is humanity in general our worst enemy?

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