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What Constitutes Apotasy (Falling Away)


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I thought I would bring this topic up, because it weighs on minds of many Christians. What constitutes apostasy, when someone falls away from faith and cannot return? According to author of Hebrews, "For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame," (Hebrews 6:4-6), and "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. They prove the truth of this proverb: "A dog returns to its vomit." And another says, "A washed pig returns to the mud." (2 Peter 2:20-22). 

It is obvious this is not talking about backsliding, because Paul goes into detail, "idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:20). Other tranlsaitons use those "who practice" (get good at, want to master) doing sin are those in danger of this verse, because Apostle John says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness," (1 John 1:9), "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus," (Acts 3:19-20), and "Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent." (Revelation 3:19).

So is the terrible apostasy of Hebrews 6, putting Jesus up to public shame, a like opposite event to when someone is baptized in water in front of church? What if qualifier? And why then did the Apostle Peter get forgiven for denying Jesus publicly (John 18:15-27, and John 20:15-19).

Please, to anyone reading this, don't freak out. Its just a question.


 

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Hello Fidei,

This a good question and I am interested in reading others thoughts on the matter.  For me personally it is not an easy question to answer because I really can't fathom why anyone would do such a thing.  That being said, the example that comes to mind for me would be satan and the third of the angels that rebelled.  I have often wondered  why they were so foolish to do such a thing, particularly since they had the privilege of being in heaven and witnessing the glory of God firsthand.

When it comes to people, I guess the easiest answer would be for power or material positions, possibly both.

God bless.

 

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You raise a good point wingnut.

I have reflected on that Satan and angels rebelled willingly, as in revolted of their own free will (Revelation 12:7-12). While in contrast mankind was deceived into falling (Genesis 3). I could start a whole other thread on why I think the angels can't be forgiven, but mankind is using this point.

I actually know a Bible College where someone who committed Hebrews 6:4-6 publicly, he then went on radio to attack Christ and Christian, made his facebook account an antichrist account where you posted unbelief. This same person then repented, and has been made head of Bible college, but he hasn't taken down those antichrist remarks on his facebook. I am thinking, this man has more than fulfilled the terrible details of Hebrews 6, he went beyond it, and now he's head of Bible college?!

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That's not a bible college I would go near.

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4 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

You raise a good point wingnut.

I have reflected on that Satan and angels rebelled willingly, as in revolted of their own free will (Revelation 12:7-12). While in contrast mankind was deceived into falling (Genesis 3). I could start a whole other thread on why I think the angels can't be forgiven, but mankind is using this point.

I actually know a Bible College where someone who committed Hebrews 6:4-6 publicly, he then went on radio to attack Christ and Christian, made his facebook account an antichrist account where you posted unbelief. This same person then repented, and has been made head of Bible college, but he hasn't taken down those antichrist remarks on his facebook. I am thinking, this man has more than fulfilled the terrible details of Hebrews 6, he went beyond it, and now he's head of Bible college?!

You really need to understand the hermeneutics of the study of literature... seeing how God makes the claim the Bible 'IS' His Word-> then all, that is within it, must agree to a unified truth...
Your claim cannot be because of this verse

1 John 2:19 (KJV)

[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

if they were actually of us they would have remained... BUT those who went out were not of us! You clearly are saying they were of us?
 

 

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11 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

You really need to understand the hermeneutics of the study of literature... seeing how God makes the claim the Bible 'IS' His Word-> then all, that is within it, must agree to a unified truth...
Your claim cannot be because of this verse

1 John 2:19 (KJV)

[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

if they were actually of us they would have remained... BUT those who went out were not of us! You clearly are saying they were of us?

Having made the statement of "You really need to understand the hermeneutics of the study of literature", I would be interested to see how you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6 and how it fits with 1 John 2:19 that you quoted.

Here is Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Here is 1 John 2:18-29

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I am sure we can agree that scripture does not contradict scripture.  Agreeing with this, how do you place these two passages beside each other and explain where in Hebrews it shows that the one spoken of there were partakers of the Holy Spirit, being partners with (G3353), were not part of "us", a Christian, pointing out that they are one of the antichrists in 1 John 2?

Personally, I believe each passage is speaking of different groups of people.

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I don't know the Apostles and Jesus mention falling way, "9Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name," (Matthew 24:9-10), "Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons," (1 Timothy 4:1), and why would Jesus keep saying these statements, "But the one who endures to the end will be saved," (Matthew 24:13), "The one overcoming, I will give to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne," (Revelation 3:21), "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown," (Revelation 3:11), "24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones," (Matthew 24:24), and "But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time,' and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," (Matthew 24:48-51).

Then there are the rebukes to churches in Revelation Chapters One to Three, and Revelation 18 (come out harlot Church) that are clearly threatening the church that if they don't stop being corrupt, they will be cut, "Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don't repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches." (Revelation 2:5).

To me it is obvious one can fall away, otherwise why would Jesus keep telling us endure to end, and Paul keep saying fight the good fight of faith? The reason to endure if you can fall away (I am not saying its easy, but I believe Scripture substantiates such a case for it).
 

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Apostasy will get worse in our end times. We are seeing that now Matthew 24:10. An apostate is someone who abandons their religious faith. They have never received Christ as Lord and Savior. They are a Christian in talk only. You can not love religion for religion's sake. It is important to have a born again genuine faith in Jesus Christ.

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13 hours ago, OneLight said:

Having made the statement of "You really need to understand the hermeneutics of the study of literature", I would be interested to see how you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6 and how it fits with 1 John 2:19 that you quoted.

Here is Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Here is 1 John 2:18-29

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I am sure we can agree that scripture does not contradict scripture.  Agreeing with this, how do you place these two passages beside each other and explain where in Hebrews it shows that the one spoken of there were partakers of the Holy Spirit, being partners with (G3353), were not part of "us", a Christian, pointing out that they are one of the antichrists in 1 John 2?

Personally, I believe each passage is speaking of different groups of people.

Eternal security of the believer is a biblical fact of The Bible... if any other way is suggested they capitulate God is lying! To suggest different groups increases problematic exegesis of Scripture... there exists only three types of people with God in the eternal state:  1. friends of the Bridegroom (OT) saints under the law, 2. The Bride (The Church), 3. Tribulation saints under the same mantle as friends of the bridegroom. The other type not continuing with us is the children of wrath in hell eternally separated from God and us in the eternal state... This is the Biblical grouping of peoples The Bible supports.

To properly frame the book of Hebrews in context is to understand the writer is writing to Jewish believers who will or have already faced excommunication from land, blood linage, way of life and also persecution from gentile world both Rome and others... Paul realizing the sacrifices that God is requiring of them He begins to strengthen their new found faith by teaching them the greatness of the office of Jesus their Christ and High Priest: excellency of the Gospel in comparison to the Law! Better High Priest as Being God Himself 'The Son' greater than all that is created...  urging understanding that OT passages were fulfilled in Him and that all the law was also fulfilled in Him and The only way, truth and life is found solely in Jesus! All that they have known, their previous way of life, has now changed into a life that can only focus upon faith in the promises of God in The Christ and the kingdom to come upon exit from this begin (literally all that they have known)...

Now from 5:12-6:3 The Writer stresses the need to move from the milk to maturity by study of OT Scripture and NT letters already in circulation (this the only remedy of persecution being faith of that which is promised forming a hope of which the evidence of not yet seen). Now we are at the place of question and I'm snipping Willmington's work for simplification of passage

6:4-12 A warning of the unthinkable? Another stern warning: People who "taste" things related to salvation and then fall away can never be restored to repentance. Various scholars have suggested that this refers to

* Christians who, through some horrible sin, "lose their salvation." If this is the meaning, the passage also teaches that such people can never be saved again.

* professed believers who have only "tasted" the things of God but never really "swallowed" them. This seems unlikely, since the writer used "taste" earlier to denote full experience, not just experimentation (see 2:9). Nor is it likely that a mere "taster" would also be a recipient of the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" (2:4).

* the "sin that leads to death" (1 John 5:14-17).

* a hypothetical case of something that, in the writer's view, could not happen.

Though not one of these views is without its problems, 6:9-12 suggests that the author saw this scenario as hypothetical, at least for the people to whom he was writing, whose spiritual fruit had amply demonstrated their salvation.

Bible Handbook by Harold Willmington Copyright © 1997 by Harold L. Willmington. Produced with permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc. All rights reserved.
Willmington's view has good exegetical review fits with over all hermeneutical contextualizing with verse-chapter-book-bible...

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5 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I don't know the Apostles and Jesus mention falling way, "9Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name," (Matthew 24:9-10), "Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons," (1 Timothy 4:1), and why would Jesus keep saying these statements, "But the one who endures to the end will be saved," (Matthew 24:13), "The one overcoming, I will give to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne," (Revelation 3:21), "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown," (Revelation 3:11), "24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones," (Matthew 24:24), and "But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time,' and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," (Matthew 24:48-51).

Then there are the rebukes to churches in Revelation Chapters One to Three, and Revelation 18 (come out harlot Church) that are clearly threatening the church that if they don't stop being corrupt, they will be cut, "Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don't repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches." (Revelation 2:5).

To me it is obvious one can fall away, otherwise why would Jesus keep telling us endure to end, and Paul keep saying fight the good fight of faith?
The reason is for sanctification ... which allows us to work the works of God to bring that glory to Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Christ. If it were referencing the responsibility of keeping our salvation then this passage of Scripture would be false
 

John 10:27 (NKJV)

[27] “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. [28] “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. [29] “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. [30] “I and My Father are one.”

The reason to endure if you can fall away (I am not saying its easy, but I believe Scripture substantiates such a case for it).

The church is not mentioned in Revelation 18!

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