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Who's right?who's wrong? Is anyone right


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2 minutes ago, Davida said:

I wanted to say wowee wow wow too!!! :P  LOL!  ya think I underestimate....  do you?  I don't underestimate what a Bible following Christ submitted Church can do & if it would follow what the Bible says.  

Trust me. I grew up in a church and while theres alot that it can do. What I've seen and encountered over the years has given me enough to say- Dont underestimate the stubborness and hard heartedness of people-

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I am literalist until its symbolic. In my opinion post modernism is one step away from Liberal Christianity, which treats the Bible as myths for moral instruction. I disagree adamantly, unequivocally, and vehemently with post modernsim and Liberal Christianity (both are lies). The Bible is God breathed (1 Tim 3:16) and is the true factual account of the Way, Truth, and Life (1 John 4:6).

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I think as per usual, God`s word says it all -

`...the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behaviour, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things - that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.` (Titus 2: 3 - 5)

Mature women discipling the younger women is God`s way, not man`s way of `the dress code police.`

Marilyn. 

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Discipleship is important, after all Jesus told us to make disciples (Matthew 28:19). My only concern  is in 1970's there was discipleship movement called The Shepherding Movement, and it turned into a cult, where the leaders lorded over the members, even telling people who they could marry (white collar couldn't marry blue collar), disciples had to get approval to leave town and attend a holiday with family instead of the church and so. The leaders were Bob Mumpherd, Derek Prince, Paul Petrie, and others who left once it grew out of control. This movement based on good principles of discipleship turned into a totalitarian cult, and I know people who are still recovering from it. Something not often discussed is that disciples eventually graduate, within a year or three months the disciples were given power (Matthew 10:8) and He sent them out two by two to do the work of kingdom on their own (Mark 6:7-9).

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1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Discipleship is important, after all Jesus told us to make disciples (Matthew 28:19). My only concern  is in 1970's there was discipleship movement called The Shepherding Movement, and it turned into a cult, where the leaders lorded over the members, even telling people who they could marry (white collar couldn't marry blue collar), disciples had to get approval to leave town and attend a holiday with family instead of the church and so. The leaders were Bob Mumpherd, Derek Prince, Paul Petrie, and others who left once it grew out of control. This movement based on good principles of discipleship turned into a totalitarian cult, and I know people who are still recovering from it. Something not often discussed is that disciples eventually graduate, within a year or three months the disciples were given power (Matthew 10:8) and He sent them out two by two to do the work of kingdom on their own (Mark 6:7-9).

Hi Fidei Defensor,

I know what you mean. I well remember the `70`s and the Shepherding Movement, however I believe people are more aware today and have more access to information and thus not so tied to one person. But it`s good you have brought up that point so as people can be aware not to ley others control them.

Maybe good some time to have a discussion on discipling & what others have learnt over the years, discipling, helping  others learn to hear the Holy spirit in their lives.

Marilyn. 

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1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Fidei Defensor,

I know what you mean. I well remember the `70`s and the Shepherding Movement, however I believe people are more aware today and have more access to information and thus not so tied to one person. But it`s good you have brought up that point so as people can be aware not to ley others control them.

Maybe good some time to have a discussion on discipling & what others have learnt over the years, discipling, helping  others learn to hear the Holy spirit in their lives.

Marilyn. 

I am glad to know someone who is aware of the Shepherding Movement. It destroyed my dad (moment of vulnerability).  You no the verse, "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." (James 3:1). I think such a verse is good warning to leaders.

I think a discipleship thread and discussion would be great. Let me know if there is one, or you are starting one.

Fidei

 

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20 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I am glad to know someone who is aware of the Shepherding Movement. It destroyed my dad (moment of vulnerability).  You no the verse, "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." (James 3:1). I think such a verse is good warning to leaders.

I think a discipleship thread and discussion would be great. Let me know if there is one, or you are starting one.

Fidei

 

Will do. At the moment I am in a debate with Shiloh & need to concentrate on that.

BTW sorry to hear how it had affected your dad.

Marilyn.

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37 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Will do. At the moment I am in a debate with Shiloh & need to concentrate on that.

BTW sorry to hear how it had affected your dad.

Marilyn.

Thanks, happy debating.

Fidei

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18 hours ago, creativemechanic said:

Trust me. I grew up in a church and while theres alot that it can do. What I've seen and encountered over the years has given me enough to say- Dont underestimate the stubborness and hard heartedness of people-

Well from what I have seen. I have known people who attend church service after church service and nothing changes in their lives. And within that same service people all around them are getting saved and learning how to live a Christian life. I don't think it is always the church's fault. Some people just flat out say "NO" to God. 

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Actually, both situations leave a lot to be desired. There are further issues here that need to be discussed. According to Matthew 18, there is a procedure for approaching a brother or sister who is "out of line" in the church, whether they be in sin, or like this instance, they are continually violating the dress code.

First, a person speaks alone to the offender. In this case, if Judy were in violation, my preference would be that an older woman approach her and gently remind her of the dress standards. If Judy changes her dress to comply, then peace is restored. According to Matthew 18, if Judy does NOT listen, then a group goes, perhaps even including men. If she still does not comply, and the issue is one that is creating discord in the church, then, the spiritual authority should be called in. In this case, Judy has been warned for 5 years. I think any confrontation should be with the pastor, the pastor's wife and perhaps a deacon's wife. If Judy doesn't comply with the dress code, then she must be excused from the fellowship.

I find it hard to believe that leadership in this church has allowed a situation to continue for 5 years. If it were that serious a problem, it should have been addressed in the first year. I think the leadership in this church is suspect. And the man is speaking in a tone that, although it is authoritative, it is also too much for the situation. This man is speaking as if Judy is his daughter. If someone approached me or my daughter that way, it would be the last time we attended that church.

Blessings all,

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