Oneness claims that John 14:10 states that Jesus is God the Father

[Bible_Gazer]

1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

Ok so here is "my best" with Jehovah's Witnesses. They will freely admit from John 1 and Colossians one that the Son of God - Jesus ... is the one that made all things in creation. (At the direction of God the Father of course). But then in Revelation 14:7 "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth" - and Revelation 21 "Worship God alone".

Irrefutable.

No problem, God did make it all, but through whom did he do it with ? His son.

Rev.21 in 1Cor. 15 Jesus turns everything over to the father that he be all in all when he was finished doing his part and is when everything is as God wants it. Rev.21 and 22 is showing down at the end when those thing are accomplished.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[MorningGlory]

On 4/2/2017 at 0:41 PM, missmuffet said:

The Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Amen.  Denying the Trinity is unbelievable to me.  And unscriptural.

[BobRyan]

5 hours ago, Bible_Gazer said:

No problem, God did make it all, but through whom did he do it with ? His son.

Rev.21 in 1Cor. 15 Jesus turns everything over to the father that he be all in all when he was finished doing his part and is when everything is as God wants it. Rev.21 and 22 is showing down at the end when those thing are accomplished.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

 

Well the Jehovah's witnesses  freely admit from John 1 and Colossians one that the Son of God - Jesus ... is the one that made all things in creation.

So then "the maker" is Jesus. The Son of God even by their definition - and they must do this for the sake of John 1 and Colossians 1.

 

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

² The same was in the beginning with God.

³ All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

..

⁹ That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

¹⁰ He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

 

And of course Colossians 1

¹⁴ In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

 

Revelation 14:7 "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth" - and Revelation 21 "Worship God alone".

 

We worship God as all agree but in Rev 14 it is the "maker" that is God and John 1 and Col 1 make it clear that Jesus the Son of God "is the Maker" so John 1 Jesus is the Maker. And John says in Rev 14 "worship Him who MADE..."

 

[Bible_Gazer]

The one trouble I have with trinity is the spirit.

They say that God is spirit, so we know God his holy, so that make him a holy spirit.

Then the trinity is saying that there is another holy spirit from God, so why another spirit when God is that spirit ?

They say they are the same, yet they gotta make a trinity for some reason.

I know this does not hold true to all trinity belief, I know of one group that believe that the father has a body.

[Limey_Bob]

On 4/15/2017 at 1:55 AM, Bible_Gazer said:

 

Then the trinity is saying that there is another holy spirit from God, so why another spirit when God is that spirit ?

 

You misunderstand the Trinity (as defined in the ancient creeds and most reputable Doctrinal Statements of Faith), sadly this is also typical of the modern evangelical faith, where so many people will use the word "trinity" but they'll make up their own definitions, which are often at complete variance from the classical definitions of the creeds. The Trinity (as defined in the creeds), teach that God is one single Spirit (John 4:24 is a singular)! Creedal Trinity does not teach that the Holy Spirit is a second Spirit to the Father who is the first Spirit, the words Holy Spirit distinguish God in his person from the Father, not in his substance or being.

[Happinessity]

Hi Limey Bob, 

I'm not one that read all of these posts to your first question. What I wanted to seek clarification on is, do you believe in who Immanuel was according to God's purpose? 

[Fidei Defensor]

"Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26)

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22)

"I am writing to God’s chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.^[a]2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:1-2).

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 28:19)

"And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17)

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--he will testify about me." (John 15:26)

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. ² Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit." (John 15:1-2)

"Father, glorify your name!" Then a voice came from heaven, "I have glorified it, and will glorify it again." (John 12:28)

"Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God;^[a] believe also in me. ² In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?^{[b] 3} And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. ⁴ And you know the way to where I am going.”^{[c] 5} Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” ⁶ Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ⁷ If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.^[d] From now on you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:1-7)

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. ² For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. ³ Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. ⁴ I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. ⁵ And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.“I have revealed you^[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. ⁷ Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. ⁸ For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. ⁹ I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. ¹⁰ All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. ¹¹ I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of^[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. ¹² While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by^[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. ¹⁴ I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. ¹⁵ My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. ¹⁶ They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. ¹⁷ Sanctify them by^[d] the truth; your word is truth. ¹⁸ As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. ¹⁹ For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, ²¹ that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. ²² I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— ²³ I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." (John 17:1-23)

"“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. ²⁸ Father, glorify your name!” (John 12:27)

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9)

"For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ." (Colossians 1:19)

"Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
    He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
¹⁶ for through him God created everything
    in the heavenly realms and on earth.
He made the things we can see
    and the things we can’t see—
such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world.
    Everything was created through him and for him.
¹⁷ He existed before anything else,
    and he holds all creation together." (Colossians 1:15-17)

"You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.

⁶ Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.
⁷ Instead, he gave up his divine privileges^[b];
    he took the humble position of a slave^[c]
    and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,^[d]
8     he humbled himself in obedience to God
    and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

⁹ Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
    and gave him the name above all other names,
¹⁰ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
¹¹ and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11)

"Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” ⁹ Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? ¹⁰ Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. ¹¹ Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do." (John 14:8-11)

"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, ² but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. ³ The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. ⁴ So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

⁵ For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
    today I have become your Father”^[a]?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
    and he will be my Son”^[b]?

⁶ And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”^[c]

⁷ In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
    and his servants flames of fire.”^[d]

⁸ But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
    a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
⁹ You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
    by anointing you with the oil of joy.”^[e]

¹⁰ He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
    and the heavens are the work of your hands.
¹¹ They will perish, but you remain;
    they will all wear out like a garment.
¹² You will roll them up like a robe;
    like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
    and your years will never end.”^[f]

¹³ To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
    until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet”^[g]?

¹⁴ Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" (Hebrews 1:1-14)

By the way Elohim as found in Genesis was always plural, until it was changed by a Rabbi during Rabbi Hillel's time to be singular, to avoid associations with Trinitarianism. During time of Maccabees, they split the Messiah in two persons, when the Messiah is One both Bridegroom/Suffering Servant and the King Melech Messiah; this is why the Pharisees and religious leaders were perplexed (they were looking for a king not a Lamb to bear sin, and Jesus is going to fulfill this when he comes as Messianic Kings of Kings in Revelation 19:11-16 to fulfill all the prophecies of David's Anointed for a thousand years Revelation 20:4-9). Then the Zealots in 70 A.D. removed many scriptures regarding the Messiah in order to stop feuding to fight the Romans, this created the Half Tankh (which omits Isaiah 53 and many chapters and verses about the Messiah). Then again in 12 Century Jews changed Judaism once more, they retranslated the Hebrew, removing allusions to Jesus in the Old Testament. Judaism has since evolved into another religion (this according to Rabbis) it includes three books the Torah (Five Books of Moses), the Talmud (Rabbinical Writings and commentaries), and the Midrash (Kabala writings, witchraft, how they use this book when the Torah condemns witchraft Exodus 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:9-12, Leviticus 19:26).

[Limey_Bob]

On 4/3/2017 at 2:53 PM, angels4u said:

Do you believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God?

Go to the ancient creeds and you'll discover the Biblical position that Yahweh God is eternally, personally and distinctly the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[BobRyan]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:55 PM, Bible_Gazer said:

The one trouble I have with trinity is the spirit.

They say that God is spirit, so we know God his holy, so that make him a holy spirit.

Then the trinity is saying that there is another holy spirit from God, so why another spirit when God is that spirit ?

They say they are the same, yet they gotta make a trinity for some reason.

I know this does not hold true to all trinity belief, I know of one group that believe that the father has a body.

Christ said this of the three persons of the Godhead

 

John 16

⁵ “But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ ⁶ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. ⁷ Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. ⁸ And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: ⁹ of sin, because they do not believe in Me; ¹⁰ of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; ¹¹ of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

¹² “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.¹³ However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. ¹⁴ He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. ¹⁵ All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

 

John 14

¹⁵ “If you love Me, keep My commandments. ¹⁶ And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— ¹⁷ the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. ¹⁸ I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

Matt 28

¹⁹ Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 

[Happinessity]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:55 PM, Bible_Gazer said:

The one trouble I have with trinity is the spirit.

They say that God is spirit, so we know God his holy, so that make him a holy spirit.

Then the trinity is saying that there is another holy spirit from God, so why another spirit when God is that spirit ?

They say they are the same, yet they gotta make a trinity for some reason.

I know this does not hold true to all trinity belief, I know of one group that believe that the father has a body.

God is the holy spirit. And God was also Jesus Christ. There's only one God. 

The idea of the trinity in my view is to help identify the actions of God in his will here on earth. When the holy spirit spoke to someone or orchestrated something, it was always God. Jesus of course was God. And as we learned in the Old Testament when it all began God was one. There's only one. Just three different identities being labeled in God's actions throughout the scripture.But it is all God. Jesus was called Immanuel and that meant, God with us. 

It sounds like there are three but that's always God working his will as one God.