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Limey_Bob

Oneness claims that John 14:10 states that Jesus is God the Father

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‘I and my Father are one.’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

‘ego kai ho patar ev esmen: (John 10:30: The Nestles Greek text).

 

‘I ((Subject)) and ((conjunction)) my Father ((object)) are ((verb 1st-person-plural)) one ((adjective)).’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

Oneness Pentecostals (Apostolics), and I used to be one back in the 1980s, would need to explain the use of the verb ‘to be,’ which a first person plural at John 10:30; ‘I and my Father (we) are one.’ This verse does not record Jesus as saying; ‘I am the Father,’ for such a direct claim by Jesus to be God the Father, would have included the verb ‘to be’ in the first person singular: ‘I am.’ But Jesus at John 10:30 instead applies a plural verb to both the Father and also to the Son; ‘are’ as in ‘we are,’ which is the verb ‘to be,’ (esmen) a present tense, in first person plural. This is why he specifically claimed to be God’s Son, and not God the Father himself at John 10:36; ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’

 

Secondly, why is the Greek neuter word ‘hen’ for ‘one’ used at John 10:30 rather than the masculine Greek word for “one,” which is the Greek ‘heis?’ This masculine word is always used in the Greek, to describe God as ‘one’ in the strictly numeric sense, and so logically it would be the only word which Jesus could use to claim that he is himself really God the Father in an absolute and literal sense. So the neuter word ‘hen,’ just means to be ‘one in agreement’ or to be ‘one in unity’ with another person, it’s used that way at 1st Corinthians 3:8, where Paul planted and Apollos watered so that were one (hen), which doesn’t mean that Paul is claiming that he was Apollos! Paul is just saying that they worked together as a team, but not that they were both the same one person! As a former Oneness Pentecostal, allow me to warn people against this error, which is sweeping through and taking over nominally Trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches around the world. I do have a video on my own YouTube channel of me explaining this verse, however, I do not know if I am permitted to post this here, possibly the admins could help me with the rules.

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Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.  John 2:22

And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves. And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. Mark 9:7-9

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I totally agree that Jesus is not the Father, and the Father is not Jesus.

I have dealt with a oneness Pentecostal group in the past, and of course they deny the trinity, and put Jesus as being all three, were Jesus is all of these persons.

I love these particular scriptures, which shows the distinctness of the Father and the Son.

Phm 1:3
(3)  Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Eph 6:23
(23)  Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Col 1:2
(2)  To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

2Th 1:2-3
(2)  Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(3)  We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

 

Now one scripture, that is interesting , is this one:


Isa 9:6
(6)  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

We know this is talking about Jesus, and we know that in the other scriptures I mentioned, it shows a distinctness between the Father and the Son.

Yet in Isaiah, it calls him the everlasting Father.

I think the reason it does so, is not to show forth that Jesus is God the Father, but rather that Jesus also has the title of Father, and in a sense, even though God the Father is our heavenly Father, so is Jesus our Father, for we were born again, by the word of God, and of course by the Spirit (Holy Spirit) of God.

 

1Pe 1:23
(23)  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Joh 3:7-8
(7)  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
(8)  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 


 

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On 3/30/2017 at 10:35 AM, Limey_Bob said:

‘I and my Father are one.’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

‘ego kai ho patar ev esmen: (John 10:30: The Nestles Greek text).

 

‘I ((Subject)) and ((conjunction)) my Father ((object)) are ((verb 1st-person-plural)) one ((adjective)).’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

Oneness Pentecostals (Apostolics), and I used to be one back in the 1980s, would need to explain the use of the verb ‘to be,’ which a first person plural at John 10:30; ‘I and my Father (we) are one.’ This verse does not record Jesus as saying; ‘I am the Father,’ for such a direct claim by Jesus to be God the Father, would have included the verb ‘to be’ in the first person singular: ‘I am.’ But Jesus at John 10:30 instead applies a plural verb to both the Father and also to the Son; ‘are’ as in ‘we are,’ which is the verb ‘to be,’ (esmen) a present tense, in first person plural. This is why he specifically claimed to be God’s Son, and not God the Father himself at John 10:36; ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’

 

Secondly, why is the Greek neuter word ‘hen’ for ‘one’ used at John 10:30 rather than the masculine Greek word for “one,” which is the Greek ‘heis?’ This masculine word is always used in the Greek, to describe God as ‘one’ in the strictly numeric sense, and so logically it would be the only word which Jesus could use to claim that he is himself really God the Father in an absolute and literal sense. So the neuter word ‘hen,’ just means to be ‘one in agreement’ or to be ‘one in unity’ with another person, it’s used that way at 1st Corinthians 3:8, where Paul planted and Apollos watered so that were one (hen), which doesn’t mean that Paul is claiming that he was Apollos! Paul is just saying that they worked together as a team, but not that they were both the same one person! As a former Oneness Pentecostal, allow me to warn people against this error, which is sweeping through and taking over nominally Trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches around the world. I do have a video on my own YouTube channel of me explaining this verse, however, I do not know if I am permitted to post this here, possibly the admins could help me with the rules.

 

John 20:28

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4 minutes ago, Behold said:

 

John 20:28

Err what is your point? How does John 20:28 even relate to John 10:30 or to this topic?

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On 3/30/2017 at 0:35 PM, Limey_Bob said:

‘I and my Father are one.’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

‘ego kai ho patar ev esmen: (John 10:30: The Nestles Greek text).

 

‘I ((Subject)) and ((conjunction)) my Father ((object)) are ((verb 1st-person-plural)) one ((adjective)).’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

Oneness Pentecostals (Apostolics), and I used to be one back in the 1980s, would need to explain the use of the verb ‘to be,’ which a first person plural at John 10:30; ‘I and my Father (we) are one.’ This verse does not record Jesus as saying; ‘I am the Father,’ for such a direct claim by Jesus to be God the Father, would have included the verb ‘to be’ in the first person singular: ‘I am.’ But Jesus at John 10:30 instead applies a plural verb to both the Father and also to the Son; ‘are’ as in ‘we are,’ which is the verb ‘to be,’ (esmen) a present tense, in first person plural. This is why he specifically claimed to be God’s Son, and not God the Father himself at John 10:36; ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’

 

Secondly, why is the Greek neuter word ‘hen’ for ‘one’ used at John 10:30 rather than the masculine Greek word for “one,” which is the Greek ‘heis?’ This masculine word is always used in the Greek, to describe God as ‘one’ in the strictly numeric sense, and so logically it would be the only word which Jesus could use to claim that he is himself really God the Father in an absolute and literal sense. So the neuter word ‘hen,’ just means to be ‘one in agreement’ or to be ‘one in unity’ with another person, it’s used that way at 1st Corinthians 3:8, where Paul planted and Apollos watered so that were one (hen), which doesn’t mean that Paul is claiming that he was Apollos! Paul is just saying that they worked together as a team, but not that they were both the same one person! As a former Oneness Pentecostal, allow me to warn people against this error, which is sweeping through and taking over nominally Trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches around the world. I do have a video on my own YouTube channel of me explaining this verse, however, I do not know if I am permitted to post this here, possibly the admins could help me with the rules.

 
 
 
 

y
10:22-30 All who have any thing to say to Christ, may find Him in the temple. Christ would make us to believe; we make ourselves doubt. The Jews understood His meaning, but could not form His words into a full charge against him. He described the gracious disposition and happy state of His sheep; they heard and believed His word, followed Him as His faithful disciples, and none of them should perish; for the Son and the Father were one. Thus He was able to defend His sheep against all their enemies, which proves that He claimed Divine power and perfection equally with the Father.

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

The Unbelief of the Jews
…29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.” 31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…

 

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The Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

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On 3/30/2017 at 11:35 AM, Limey_Bob said:

‘I and my Father are one.’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

‘ego kai ho patar ev esmen: (John 10:30: The Nestles Greek text).

 

‘I ((Subject)) and ((conjunction)) my Father ((object)) are ((verb 1st-person-plural)) one ((adjective)).’  (John 10:30, KJV).

 

Oneness Pentecostals (Apostolics), and I used to be one back in the 1980s, would need to explain the use of the verb ‘to be,’ which a first person plural at John 10:30; ‘I and my Father (we) are one.’ This verse does not record Jesus as saying; ‘I am the Father,’ for such a direct claim by Jesus to be God the Father, would have included the verb ‘to be’ in the first person singular: ‘I am.’ But Jesus at John 10:30 instead applies a plural verb to both the Father and also to the Son; ‘are’ as in ‘we are,’ which is the verb ‘to be,’ (esmen) a present tense, in first person plural. This is why he specifically claimed to be God’s Son, and not God the Father himself at John 10:36; ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’

 

Secondly, why is the Greek neuter word ‘hen’ for ‘one’ used at John 10:30 rather than the masculine Greek word for “one,” which is the Greek ‘heis?’ This masculine word is always used in the Greek, to describe God as ‘one’ in the strictly numeric sense, and so logically it would be the only word which Jesus could use to claim that he is himself really God the Father in an absolute and literal sense. So the neuter word ‘hen,’ just means to be ‘one in agreement’ or to be ‘one in unity’ with another person, it’s used that way at 1st Corinthians 3:8, where Paul planted and Apollos watered so that were one (hen), which doesn’t mean that Paul is claiming that he was Apollos! Paul is just saying that they worked together as a team, but not that they were both the same one person! As a former Oneness Pentecostal, allow me to warn people against this error, which is sweeping through and taking over nominally Trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches around the world. I do have a video on my own YouTube channel of me explaining this verse, however, I do not know if I am permitted to post this here, possibly the admins could help me with the rules.

Why would you prefer to believe Jesus is not the Father?

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30 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Amen! That is the whole truth.

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