wingnut- Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, Giller said: The timing of these things is actually pretty simple, you just have to follow this next scripture. Rev 1:19 (19) Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; The things which thou hast seen points to the vision he got of the glorified Christ (Revelation 1:10-18), the things which are points to the seven churches of John's day, but also to the whole church age, which in every church age, the spirit of these churches exists or existed (Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22). Now we go unto Revelation 4:1. Rev 4:1 (1) After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Come up hither, is representative of the rapture, which the first voice was as it were a trumpet talking with John. And after the church age is finished, and the church comes up hither, then Christ reveals what must come after the church age comes to an end. He then reveals what must be hereafter. Which follows in chronological order. First the seven seals, then the 7 trumpets, and then the 7 vials. It is that simple, just follow what it says in revelation 1:19, and it gives the time line. Actually that is just the Lord telling John's Spirit to come up so he can see the vision, and I will give you just one of many examples as to why Revelation is not chronological Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” 19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. This is chapter 11, still 11 chapters to go in the book. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: The pretrib, midtrib and post trib views are not a salvation issue. But allowing a believer to stumble and fall due to false doctrine is another matter. We are all judged according to what we have done while in these earthly bodies. We always need to consider that. I agree completely, which is why I am compelled to point out the errors of your theory. I must have heard a thousand times in my life someone of your opinion tell a non-believer that if all the Christians disappear, they will know they missed the rapture and better come to Jesus. What happens to them when the Christians don't disappear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 1 hour ago, wingnut- said: Exactly how does one become a believer if there is no one to speak the truth to them? And exactly where in scripture does the remnant of the church appear? The only remnant you will find is in regards to Israel. Why on earth would there be a remnant of the church left? Well you were ALIVE when the Church was here........many people gave been called and many have refused that call, thus all they have to do my friend is cry out to an all merciful God. You act like the Church being Raptured makes everyone a baby without memories or something. There is a REMNANT of the Body of Christ because new people come to Christ Jesus after the Rapture. QUESTION, if you were not a Christian, but had a wife, a few kids and friends who were Christians, but you tarried and was not a Christian, and the Raptured happened, millions died maybe a billion people died, you would know this was Jesus calling your lived ones home.....Would you give your life to Christ at that very moment and be willing to die as a Martyr or Serve the Beast/Anti-Christ? Well, that is how you get a Remnant, people give their lives to the Lord after the Rapture. Why do people ask this same question over and over, I can't believe how many times I have to explain this, and sometimes the same person will ask 10 times over a 2 or 3 year period. Israel will be protected by God in Rev. 12, so explain why we have two different subsets mentioned in Rev. 12:17? Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman (Israel), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (God Protected Israel 1260 Days so Satan was ANGRY, he couldn't get at her), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (Her SEED is Jesus Christ), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Jesus was the PROMISED SEED...........The Remnant of Israels Seed (Jesus) is the Body of Christ that is alive on Earth. Notice Satan can not get at ISRAEL (Woman) so he goes after THE CHURCH. Why would you not understand these to be two different entities? One is PROTECTED............The other Satan can make War with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 The 6 seals are not the wrath of the Lamb, they are just random happenings in a world gone wicked. The 6 seals shows God is omniscient, he knows what will happen before they happen. This is the reason I say the 6 seals are not the wrath of the Lamb, Rev. 6:9-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, kenny2212 said: The 6 seals are not the wrath of the Lamb, they are just random happenings in a world gone wicked. The 6 seals shows God is omniscient, he knows what will happen before they happen. This is the reason I say the 6 seals are not the wrath of the Lamb, Rev. 6:9-11. I approve of this message (the seals aren't Gods wrath). Seal 1 and 5 obviously are not Gods wrath, so why do you think the others are? Rev 6:12 told you when the wrath begins.....why question it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Revelation Man said: I will get back with you in a while, going to take a break and make some coffee. Possibly take a shower. The Scriptures are there, but you must remember, the Bible is a Jewish Religious book. Its about Israel, and PRETTY MUCH, 90-95 percent of Jewish peoples are going to go through the tribulation. That is why Paul said, I tell you a Mystery. It has just never been relevant to Israel, Jacobs Trouble was prophesied 2500 yo 3000 years ago or more (according to which Prophet said it and when, its cloudy now and I was tired then, had to be refreshed....). The Rapture is about the Bride of Christ. We are justified by his blood. Revelation 19 is very clear. When we come back with him on White Horses, after Marrying the Lamb, the Anti-Christ and his Kings/Minions are still on earth. Okay, I hope you had a shower and hearty breakfast. I'm ready to receive when you are ready to give. Spock drinking coffee and rubbing cat's head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Revelation Man said: Well you were ALIVE when the Church was here........many people gave been called and many have refused that call, thus all they have to do my friend is cry out to an all merciful God. You act like the Church being Raptured makes everyone a baby without memories or something. There is a REMNANT of the Body of Christ because new people come to Christ Jesus after the Rapture. QUESTION, if you were not a Christian, but had a wife, a few kids and friends who were Christians, but you tarried and was not a Christian, and the Raptured happened, millions died maybe a billion people died, you would know this was Jesus calling your lived ones home.....Would you give your life to Christ at that very moment and be willing to die as a Martyr or Serve the Beast/Anti-Christ? Well, that is how you get a Remnant, people give their lives to the Lord after the Rapture. Why do people ask this same question over and over, I can't believe how many times I have to explain this, and sometimes the same person will ask 10 times over a 2 or 3 year period. Israel will be protected by God in Rev. 12, so explain why we have two different subsets mentioned in Rev. 12:17? Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman (Israel), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (God Protected Israel 1260 Days so Satan was ANGRY, he couldn't get at her), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (Her SEED is Jesus Christ), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Jesus was the PROMISED SEED...........The Remnant of Israels Seed (Jesus) is the Body of Christ that is alive on Earth. Notice Satan can not get at ISRAEL (Woman) so he goes after THE CHURCH. Why would you not understand these to be two different entities? One is PROTECTED............The other Satan can make War with. I already did explain this to you in the other thread, you argued for several pages that the woman was not Israel and that the woman was the church. I'm glad to see you came around on that, but as I pointed out there, the woman being Israel means the offspring is the church. Israel gave birth to Jesus, Jesus gave birth to the church. With Israel protected, Satan goes after the church because he can't get the woman. There is no remnant of the church in scripture, only a remnant of Israel and that remnant is protected. 2/3 of Israel will be cut off and die as prophesied by Zechariah. And the gathering which is the first resurrection is found in scripture multiple times, Matthew 24 and Revelation 16 being the most prominent. You properly identify the gathering in Matthew 24, which aligns perfectly with where it appears in Revelation 16. Matthew 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. That's at the end, just before Armageddon. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 There is nothing about the "church" in Revelation 12 .... it is all about the Lord, Israel, and Satan .... all of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: There is nothing about the "church" in Revelation 12 .... it is all about the Lord, Israel, and Satan .... all of it Who today obey's God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus? There is only one group, so not a hard question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 10, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2017 "Who today obey's God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus? There is only one group, so not a hard question." Your testimony is very short sighted my friend .... Revelation 12 is about the Lord, Israel, and Satan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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