Justin Adams Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 2:27 AM, MorningGlory said: I know that they do but they are not mainstream Christianity and I've no idea WHY they do. The fact remains that the Book of Enoch was not included in the canon. Christians cannot look to it as Scripture. Sorry MG, but there is no 'mainstream Christianity'. Somebody has given you the idea that they control your mind and therefore your choice of reading materials. Historically Roman persuasions perhaps. I suggest you just read it and see why the apostles and Yeshua and every scribe of the scriptures was so well acquainted with it and quoted it so often. Find out about 2nd Temple historical perspectives and understandings. Revelations uses a lot of the cosmic understanding of the historical Israeli scholars. Qumran quoted it and they were about as conservative as one can get. The modern church still has that old Roman 'fear' bred into it about daring to look at other sources. it is an 'hindrance from the devil'. You will NOT loose your salvation and might just save someone by knowing how it all works in the heavens as well as on earth. How will you recognize the out-workings of the fallen ones if you do not read about the history of the Lord God's dealings with them? Soon there will be signs and wonders that will take in all who are not prepared and who have not studied to show themselves approved. If you think Yeshua JUST came to save mankind, then by studying Yahweh's History, you will find out that he came to redeem the whole world and put to rights that terrible evil that was put upon humans by the fallen angels and their teachings. It is soon to be happening again so I urge all of you to find out and be prepared so that in that day you will be able to stand. This is part and parcel of the pre-trip thing that is a deliberate and systematic dumbing-down of the church. 1) Tell them they cannot read about the next and prior angelic incursions 2) Tell them they will be out of here anyway, so they need not worry 3) Hoodwink the lot of them with signs and wonders and DO NOT rapture them 4) Watch them fall like dominoes for all the signs and wonders and then devour them in beastly ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2017 Even more of 1 Enoch that Glorifies Yeshua Messiah: For wisdom is poured out like water, And glory faileth not before him for evermore. For He is mighty in all the secrets of righteousness, And unrighteousness shall disappear as a shadow, And have no continuance; Because The Elect One standeth before the Lord of Spirits, And His Glory Is For Ever And Ever, And His Might Unto All Generations. And In Him dwells the spirit of wisdom, And the spirit which gives insight, And the spirit of understanding and of might, And the spirit of those who have fallen asleep in righteousness. And He shall judge the secret things, And none shall be able to utter a lying word before Him; For He Is The Elect One before the Lord of Spirits according to His good pleasure. • 1 Enoch 49 http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,458 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,371 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 1:25 PM, Willa said: We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God. The above statement was taken from our statement of faith on Worthy GOTQUESTIONS.ORG is considered pretty reliable by most here on Worthy. It references F.F. Bruce who is also respected by many as a reliable authority. To be included in the Bible as sacred scripture it must be all true. Even the book of mormon has some truth quoted directly from the Old Testament KJV that is truth, but is interspersed with lies and garbage. Our statement of faith on Worthy states that the 66 books of the Bible are the exhaustive (complete) word of God. Other books are spurious or also contain errors and fiction. Some churches separate some OT books from the rest of Scripture and believe they are OK to read but we must not base doctrine on them. Our OT is based on the Hebrew manuscript whereas the Catholic church used the Greek manuscript. Question: "What is the book of Enoch and should it be in the Bible?" Answer: The Book of Enoch is any of several pseudepigraphal (falsely attributed works, texts whose claimed authorship is unfounded) works that attribute themselves to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah; that is, Enoch son of Jared (Genesis 5:18). Enoch is also one of the two people in the Bible taken up to heaven without dying (the other being Elijah), as the Bible says "And Enoch walked with God, and he was not; for God took him." (Genesis 5:24; see also Hebrews 11:5). Most commonly, the phrase "Book of Enoch" refers to 1 Enoch, which is wholly extant only in the Ethiopic language. The biblical book of Jude quotes from the Book of Enoch in verses 14-15, “Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: ‘See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.’” But this does not mean the Book of Enoch is inspired by God and should be in the Bible. Jude’s quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source. The Apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12 but that does not mean we should give any additional authority to Epimenides’ writings. The same is true with Jude, verses 14-15. Jude quoting from the book of Enoch does not indicate the entire Book of Enoch is inspired, or even true. All it means is that particular verse is true. It is interesting to note that no scholars believe the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch in the Bible. Enoch was seven generations from Adam, prior to the Flood (Genesis 5:1-24). Evidently, though, this was genuinely something that Enoch prophesied – or the Bible would not attribute it to him, “Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men…” (Jude 14). This saying of Enoch was evidently handed down by tradition, and eventually recorded in the Book of Enoch. We should treat the Book of Enoch (and the other books like it) in the same manner we do the other Apocryphal writings. Some of what the Apocrypha says is true and correct, but at the same time, much of it is false and historically inaccurate. If you read these books, you have to treat them as interesting but fallible historical documents, not as the inspired, authoritative Word of God.Recommended Resource: The Canon of Scripture by F.F. Bruce Very, very good response and explanation! I personally feel since the Book of Enoch and Jubilees is positively mentioned in scripture, it does give us license to read them. But not as the inspired Word of God as mentioned above. I've found those books to be informative and the thinking of the time, and some potential historical information to consider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 On 12/11/2017 at 7:23 AM, Justin Adams said: Sorry MG, but there is no 'mainstream Christianity'. Somebody has given you the idea that they control your mind and therefore your choice of reading materials. Historically Roman persuasions perhaps. I suggest you just read it and see why the apostles and Yeshua and every scribe of the scriptures was so well acquainted with it and quoted it so often. Find out about 2nd Temple historical perspectives and understandings. Revelations uses a lot of the cosmic understanding of the historical Israeli scholars. Qumran quoted it and they were about as conservative as one can get. The modern church still has that old Roman 'fear' bred into it about daring to look at other sources. it is an 'hindrance from the devil'. You will NOT loose your salvation and might just save someone by knowing how it all works in the heavens as well as on earth. How will you recognize the out-workings of the fallen ones if you do not read about the history of the Lord God's dealings with them? Soon there will be signs and wonders that will take in all who are not prepared and who have not studied to show themselves approved. If you think Yeshua JUST came to save mankind, then by studying Yahweh's History, you will find out that he came to redeem the whole world and put to rights that terrible evil that was put upon humans by the fallen angels and their teachings. It is soon to be happening again so I urge all of you to find out and be prepared so that in that day you will be able to stand. This is part and parcel of the pre-trip thing that is a deliberate and systematic dumbing-down of the church. 1) Tell them they cannot read about the next and prior angelic incursions 2) Tell them they will be out of here anyway, so they need not worry 3) Hoodwink the lot of them with signs and wonders and DO NOT rapture them 4) Watch them fall like dominoes for all the signs and wonders and then devour them in beastly ways The Book of Enoch is NOT Scripture and all the long, long posts (not just by you) will not make it so. The Bible tells us not to add to, or take away from, Scripture and that is EXACTLY what all of you pushing the Book of Enoch are doing. I think that those who remain in Scripture are WAY less likely to be deceived than those who try to go to extrabiblical sources and believe every CT that comes along in addition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,064 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,813 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 to quote Ayin Pffft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 Yet Even More of 1 Enoch that Glorifies Yeshua Messiah : And in those days shall the earth also give back that which has been entrusted to it, And Sheol also shall give back that which it has received, And hell shall give back that which it owes. For in those days The Elect One Shall Arise, And He shall choose the righteous and holy from among them: For the day has drawn nigh That They Should Be Saved. And The Elect One shall In Those Days Sit On My Throne, And His mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel: For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to Him and hath Glorified Him. • 1 Enoch 51:1-3 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,My Elect One in whom My soul delights!I have put My Spirit upon Him;He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, • Isaiah 42:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 hours ago, other one said: to quote Ayin Pffft. I think you know that not adding or taking away from Scripture is Biblical, OO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 And he said unto me: 'All these things which thou hast seen shall serve the dominion of His Anointed that He May Be Potent And Mighty On The Earth.' And that angel of peace answered, saying unto me: 'Wait a little, and there shall be revealed unto thee all the secret things which surround the Lord of Spirits. And these mountains which thine eyes have seen, The mountain of iron, and the mountain of copper, and the mountain of silver,And the mountain of gold, and the mountain of soft metal, and the mountain of lead, All these shall be In The Presence Of The Elect One As Wax: before the fire, And like the water which streams down from above [upon those mountains], And they shall become powerless Before His Feet. • 1 Enoch 52:4-6 http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,064 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,813 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, MorningGlory said: I think you know that not adding or taking away from Scripture is Biblical, OO. Both myself and many of the first century church fathers consider 1 Enoch as God given. It does not pass some of the rules that the councils set up to call scripture so I can't say that it should be included in the canon....... however there are several of the books that I believe are true and given by God for people in the latter times. Just remember that the same people who decided it was not also set up the catholic church...... there is much of the different councils that I have disagreements with..... And besides the end of Revelation where it speaks of adding or taking away from that book pertains only to Revelation, not the whole Bible..... and there is much in my life that I would share with very few people that convinces me that it is so..... There are things about to happen that should change your mind if we are really close to the end so I really don't have to worry about convincing you about it...... Just remember that the ET's that are on the way are not little grey people from Venus or green folks from Mars..... they will be the fallen angels that are about to be kicked down here and the original Watchers released to make things just as they were before the flood..... and I'm not in any mood to try and convince you about it these days....... Just don't buy into the ET thing when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted December 13, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, MorningGlory said: The Book of Enoch is NOT Scripture and all the long, long posts (not just by you) will not make it so. The Bible tells us not to add to, or take away from, Scripture and that is EXACTLY what all of you pushing the Book of Enoch are doing. I think that those who remain in Scripture are WAY less likely to be deceived than those who try to go to extrabiblical sources and believe every CT that comes along in addition. In one book it is said do not add or take away. Just one book. Not the whole collection of scriptures. There are quite a few that are not even found as well. What about those? Please do some study instead of rebuttal. There is NO reason whatsoever to not study other scripture sources - inspired or whatever. REDACTED. Just think that every time your 'pastor' or your 'speaker' talks IT IS NOT INSPIRED... EITHER. Church-speak is EXTRA-BIBLICAL, and far more likely to be false than Enoch. Edited December 13, 2017 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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