The Book of Enoch

[other one]

5 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I understand that but not everyone believes that the extrabiblical books are important.  Getting angry because others disagree is futile.

I didn't say I was angry just offended.....    you may say here that they are not important, but you call them a lie.....   you have called anything not in the Bible a lie and that just isn't so.   It's one thing to tell people it isn't important but something altogether different to tell them they shouldn't read it at all; which is what you seem to bee saying.  You are as annoying as OldSchool is to you with his politics.

[ForHisGlory37]

17 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Me chiming in here. Take a quick thought about this. 12k per tribe. Virgin people all 'men'. 

Today it would be hard to find 1200 let alone 144k. So how about this for an idea; remembering that Yeshua was addressing the Incursion of Gen 6 as well as salvation for mankind, but He also was redeeming the whole creation - a creation marred MORE by angelic disobedience than anything humans ever did. So these VIRGINS will do the OPPOSITE of what the fallen angels did and do a work of Yeshua's redemption.

They might just be a specially chosen rank of angels. Yahweh knows, but just think on it.

Justin, I'm not quite understanding what you are saying, could you please explain a bit more with detail?  thanks....... also, you know how it says that in the last days it will be like the days of Noah, what do you think those fallen angels or wicked men will do?  I think this transhumanism and maybe the GMO, crossing animal DNA with plant DNA might be what that verse is referring to... 

Another thought that I had, what do you think about those legends about the cyclops, minotaurs, centaurs, and such creatures were maybe not legends but real?  Maybe they were part of the corrupted animals that the "angels that left their first estate"  corrupted? 

[MorningGlory]

17 hours ago, other one said:

I didn't say I was angry just offended.....    you may say here that they are not important, but you call them a lie.....   you have called anything not in the Bible a lie and that just isn't so.   It's one thing to tell people it isn't important but something altogether different to tell them they shouldn't read it at all; which is what you seem to bee saying.  You are as annoying as OldSchool is to you with his politics.

Well, if you can quote a post where I told ANYONE not to read anything, please do.  I have said that the extracanonical books are not Scripture.  I have posted all the contradictions in the Book of Enoch.  But as for what you or anyone else reads or lives by....that's between you and God.  If you find differing opinions annoying, that's on you.  And by the way, I don't find OS2 annoying.

[MorningGlory]

18 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Me chiming in here. Take a quick thought about this. 12k per tribe. Virgin people all 'men'. 

Today it would be hard to find 1200 let alone 144k. So how about this for an idea; remembering that Yeshua was addressing the Incursion of Gen 6 as well as salvation for mankind, but He also was redeeming the whole creation - a creation marred MORE by angelic disobedience than anything humans ever did. So these VIRGINS will do the OPPOSITE of what the fallen angels did and do a work of Yeshua's redemption.

They might just be a specially chosen rank of angels. Yahweh knows, but just think on it.

The 144,000 are of the twelve tribes of Israel.  They could not be angels.

[MorningGlory]

21 hours ago, Jude1:3 said:

 Tertullian Quoting 1 Enoch 99:6-7

 

• Tertullian - On Idolatry - Chapter 4       (160-220 A.D.)

Enoch had preceded, predicting that the demons, and the spirits of the angelic apostates, would turn into idolatry all the elements, all the garniture of the universe, all things contained in the heaven, in the sea, in the earth, that they might be consecrated as God, in opposition to God. All things, therefore, does human error worship, except the Founder of all Himself. The images of those things are idols; the consecration of the images is idolatry. Whatever guilt idolatry incurs, must necessarily be imputed to every artificer of every idol. In short, the same Enoch fore-condemns in general menace both idol-worshippers and idol-makers together. And again: "I swear to you, sinners, that against the day of perdition of blood repentance is being prepared. You who serve stones, and you who make images of gold, and silver, and wood, and stones and clay, and serve phantoms, and demons, and spiritsin fanes, and all errors not according to knowledge, shall find no help from them "

• Tertullian - On Idolatry - Chapter 4       (160-220 A.D.)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0302.htm

 

 

 

And again I swear to you, ye sinners, that sin is prepared for a day of unceasing bloodshed. And they who worship stones, and grave images of gold and silver and wood (and stone) and clay, and those who worship impure spirits and demons, and all kinds of idols not according to knowledge, shall get no manner of help from them. 

• 1 Enoch 99:6-7

http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm

 

Taking a cursory look at the text up through Chapter 59, I found the following false doctrines. (I may be off on one here or there, but it should be sufficient to get my point across.)

1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.

1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.

2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7

5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)

6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural

6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible

8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women

8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either

10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.

10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.

10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.

10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.

13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.

14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures

15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants

17-18,21,23 Gives a very strange description of the earth & universe which is clearly not true. Also alludes to the ancient model of astronomy that held that there were 7 stars (the closest planets) which burned like the sun (they don't.)

19:3 Discredits all other prophecy about the consumation of the ages.

20 Lists strange angels not in scripture, and incorrectly assigns the roles of Michael (the warrior) and Gabriel (the messenger)

21:7-10 Seems to contradict Biblical descriptions of the present & final judgement places for the fallen angels

22 Contradicts the Biblical descriptions of past, present & future dwelling places for the righteous who die

32:2-6 Seems to imply the Garden of Eden was still in existance after the Flood

33:1-2 Says Heaven rests on a foundation that is at the Eastern edge of the earth

33:3 He claims he counted the stars & individually mapped them, which is impossible scripturally (& scientifically)

34 Says the winds come out of a "portal" at the Northern edge of the earth

36:3 Says the stars come out of portals at the Eastern edge of the earth & move West

38:5-6 Contradicts Daniel & other prophecies about the Mellinial Reign

39:1-2 Very strange implications here about the "seed" of angels dwelling with men at the end... this contradicts the scriptures

40:7 Talks about the "Satans" - plural, different than the Bible, who gives that name to only one fallen angel. Also, implies Satan can't stand in God's presence, contrary to Job.

40:9 Once again mixes up the roles of the 2 Archangels & adds more names in. Michael's role in scripture is related to conquoring nations & fighting spiritual wars, while Gabriel's relates to bringing messages & visions to people.

41:1-2 Says the Kingdom of God is divided - it's not & can't be scripturally. Also describes sinners being repelled from a mansion, which is also not scriptural, unless you look at a parable Jesus told, which was not intended to be literal.

41:4-5 Says the sun, moon, winds, etc. are stored in chambers & released at appointed times.

41:6-7 Implies the sun & moon move opposite of each other

43:1-3,44 Very weird model of the nature of stars & lightning

47:4 Says God requires the blood of the saints... very strange

51:1 Says Sheol & Hell will give back to the earth, which isn't scriptural - also Hell is a NT term, not OT

51:2 Disputes the Biblical doctrine that we are chosen. (We don't have to wait until Christ's return to be chosen.) This isn't scriptural.

General: Seems to imply Enoch came back down to earth after being taken up to Heaven, which is not scriptural.  From christianitystackexchange.com

[other one]

good grief.......

[MorningGlory]

20 hours ago, Jude1:3 said:

More from Tertullian:

• Tertullian - On the Apparel of Women - Book 2 - Chapter 10

But, if the self-same angels who disclosed both the material substances of this kind and their charms— of gold, I mean, and lustrous stones— and taught men how to work them, and by and by instructed them, among their other (instructions), in (the virtues of) eyelid-powder and the dyeings of fleeces, have been condemned by God, As Enoch Tells Us, how shall we please God while we joy in the things of those (angles) who, on these accounts, have provoked the anger and the vengeance of God?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm

Taking a cursory look at the text up through Chapter 59, I found the following false doctrines. (I may be off on one here or there, but it should be sufficient to get my point across.)

1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.

1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.

2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7

5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)

6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural

6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible

8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women

8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either

10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.

10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.

10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.

10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.

13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.

14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures

15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants

17-18,21,23 Gives a very strange description of the earth & universe which is clearly not true. Also alludes to the ancient model of astronomy that held that there were 7 stars (the closest planets) which burned like the sun (they don't.)

19:3 Discredits all other prophecy about the consumation of the ages.

20 Lists strange angels not in scripture, and incorrectly assigns the roles of Michael (the warrior) and Gabriel (the messenger)

21:7-10 Seems to contradict Biblical descriptions of the present & final judgement places for the fallen angels

22 Contradicts the Biblical descriptions of past, present & future dwelling places for the righteous who die

32:2-6 Seems to imply the Garden of Eden was still in existance after the Flood

33:1-2 Says Heaven rests on a foundation that is at the Eastern edge of the earth

33:3 He claims he counted the stars & individually mapped them, which is impossible scripturally (& scientifically)

34 Says the winds come out of a "portal" at the Northern edge of the earth

36:3 Says the stars come out of portals at the Eastern edge of the earth & move West

38:5-6 Contradicts Daniel & other prophecies about the Mellinial Reign

39:1-2 Very strange implications here about the "seed" of angels dwelling with men at the end... this contradicts the scriptures

40:7 Talks about the "Satans" - plural, different than the Bible, who gives that name to only one fallen angel. Also, implies Satan can't stand in God's presence, contrary to Job.

40:9 Once again mixes up the roles of the 2 Archangels & adds more names in. Michael's role in scripture is related to conquoring nations & fighting spiritual wars, while Gabriel's relates to bringing messages & visions to people.

41:1-2 Says the Kingdom of God is divided - it's not & can't be scripturally. Also describes sinners being repelled from a mansion, which is also not scriptural, unless you look at a parable Jesus told, which was not intended to be literal.

41:4-5 Says the sun, moon, winds, etc. are stored in chambers & released at appointed times.

41:6-7 Implies the sun & moon move opposite of each other

43:1-3,44 Very weird model of the nature of stars & lightning

47:4 Says God requires the blood of the saints... very strange

51:1 Says Sheol & Hell will give back to the earth, which isn't scriptural - also Hell is a NT term, not OT

51:2 Disputes the Biblical doctrine that we are chosen. (We don't have to wait until Christ's return to be chosen.) This isn't scriptural.

General: Seems to imply Enoch came back down to earth after being taken up to Heaven, which is not scriptural.  From christianitystackexchange.com.

[Jude1:3]

What you posted has nothing to do with the Quotes I posted from Church Father Tertullian.

[Jude1:3]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

The 144,000 are of the twelve tribes of Israel.  They could not be angels.

 

I agree with this.

[Jude1:3]

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