Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Fidei Defensor]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

I'm really not sure if that's what i see coming collectively.  The liberal denominations who are already joined to the world & will join with the RCC - these will be unified. The liberal churches see's themselves as sjw rather then studiers & keepers of the Word of God. Because they take scripture out of context they will agree with all political groups  & social activists in order to make peace and claim that's what Jesus did- after all, "doesn't the Bible say  He was a peace maker?" The worldly church denominations believe & say the Bible needs updating & reinterpreting for these modern times , just as the Pope said for the Beatitudes of Jesus.  I see the worldly non-Bible following denominations uniting against those Christians who are adherents to God's word, & these literal Bible scriptural -following believers  will become more outcasts & marginalized &  becoming smaller as the persecution presses in on all sides.  Already we see the emergent church movement's influence upon people's attitude towards sound doctrine. The radical left & mainstream left see's the Bible following Christians values an obstacle to all they hold dear & wants them to either get with their  program or be "gone". 

The liberal churches will likely disappear (Matthew 24:10), but I referring to the Church that holds fast to Christ and His Gospel and is cross-denominational. Persecution will force those who bicker over non-essentials like whether to use leaven or unleavened bread at the Communion, pre to post trib, use hymns or worship songs, and etc to come together. 

[Fidei Defensor]

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

Like who?  most of the denominations have compromised most of the Bible already, but say they believe in Christ Jesus,  but keep not His word? 

There is Remnant in every denomination. There are brothers and sisters in Christ who have stood firm and do not agree with the compromises. However, we should never presume to judge who or who isn’t saved or who is corrupt, “Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door,” (James 5:9), “You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent M,” (John  8:15-16), “But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God,” (Romans 14:10). The only definitive way to judge if we must is if someone does a public display (Romans 10:9-10, Hebrews 6:4-6), otherwise it remains in their hearts and only what they confess can help us know what someone believes, even then its tricky when semantics differ like ”Born Again,” “found Jesus,” and “got saved.” Worse, The word salvo can mean salvation as in eternal life or to save someone from a fall or danger. 

Just because a church system is corrupt does not mean the people are. Right now RCC the Church is splitting over those who hold to the Old Roman view, and those who follow Pope Francis into the “beyond.” The has is happened in Lutheranism (Evangelical va Missouri Synod), Methodist, Presbyterian, and etc. All of which have split on traditional and progressive lines. Therefore If someone identifies as Lutheran we should refrain from jumping to conclusion that they are liberal Evangelical, they could be a Missouri Synod.  

[Fidei Defensor]

13 minutes ago, Davida said:

I actually think the liberal churches are gaining more popularity & won't disappear. But I think this social movement church  are the great following away.

I meant will disappear in these last days, cease to be Churches when the Man of Sin rises (2 Thessalonians 2:1-11, Revelation 13:7). They are popular now, but when the antichrist takes power they will quickly dissolve (2 Thessalonians 2:4). 

[Fidei Defensor]

15 hours ago, listener24 said:

hey all, just wanted to suggest few distinctions.

1) Ecumenism is often used with bad intents and bad effects. Whenever it is used to "compromise" on the Truth, then is not healthy. There is a lot of this "bad" ecumenism going on, and we shouldn't be part of it.

2) There is a lot of worldliness growing in Christianity. People who proclaim that the Kingdom already started. They are not only from preterism, they are from all sort of denominations. That's the main attack going on the Truth. There is a reason why this is spreading so much: is the last attempt of the enemy to stop the last revival that will lead to his demise. This leads to point 3

3) I've recently read a book that says that the question in Luke 18:1-8,

" And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. ⁷ And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? ⁸ I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

, this very question, even if on one hand is referred to every Christian, on the other hands is referred especially to the last generation alive at the Return of the Lord, as the eschatological tone of the whole parable communicates.

So the book says that in the last days there will be oneness among true Christians, and that would be a sign that "the Bride has made herself ready", in addition to the sign of the unified prayer "Thy Kingdom come. Come quickly, Lord Jesus"

4) wherever this prayer for the Return of the Lord will spread, in every denomination, it will show that the believer praying it are not falling into "worldliness". Those believer will show to be one in their desire for the Lord to become King.

5) Whoever instead will fight this prayer, will unmask his worldliness, and will show to be exactly like in the parable:

""But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'" (Luke 19:14)

These "christians" will unite themselves in their worldliness, trying to delay the Return of the King instead of hastening it as Peter suggests (2Peter 3:12), but nothing good will come out of it.

Meanwhile true Christians will unite in the desire of the Kingdom, and spread the real "good novel of the Kingdom"

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

6) In short: Truth must come first, ecumenism will just be a result of it for true Christians. Ecumenism in false doctrines will lead to nothing good. We can recognize true Christians by their worldliness vs desire for the Kingdom.

When the Bride makes herself ready in the Bible she says "The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"" (Revelation 22:17). This is a cry that will spread through all the true believers, while the worldly ones will try to fight it to delay their defeat

 

Thanks for sharing this. The fact that the Our Father Prayer and Come Quickly Prayer (Revelation 22:20) could unite the churches in a healthy ecumenism is riveting!  

[Fidei Defensor]

8 minutes ago, Davida said:

There is no good part to the ecumenical movement.  It is all bad for the Bible believing Christian. 

Even if the ecumenism was Bible based? Meaning all the denominations agreed the Bible was the final authority and measure for Christian belief and life? 

Right now the RCC is imploding and many RCs will have to decide to either schism into an Old Catholic Church denomination like the Old Believers who schismed pitcof the Russian Orthodox Church or they will join us in Solae Scriptura ans realize Institutions can change, but not Jesus (Hebrews 13:8) or the Scriptures.   

[seeking the lost]

5 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

There is Remnant in every denomination. There are brothers and sisters in Christ who have stood firm and do not agree with the compromises. However, we should never presume to judge who or who isn’t saved or who is corrupt, “Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door,” (James 5:9), “You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent M,” (John  8:15-16), “But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God,” (Romans 14:10). The only definitive way to judge if we must is if someone does a public display (Romans 10:9-10, Hebrews 6:4-6), otherwise it remains in their hearts and only what they confess can help us know what someone believes, even then its tricky when semantics differ like ”Born Again,” “found Jesus,” and “got saved.” Worse, The word salvo can mean salvation as in eternal life or to save someone from a fall or danger. 

Just because a church system is corrupt does not mean the people are. Right now RCC the Church is splitting over those who hold to the Old Roman view, and those who follow Pope Francis into the “beyond.” The has is happened in Lutheranism (Evangelical va Missouri Synod), Methodist, Presbyterian, and etc. All of which have split on traditional and progressive lines. Therefore If someone identifies as Lutheran we should refrain from jumping to conclusion that they are liberal Evangelical, they could be a Missouri Synod.  

Just want to agree with you.  The visible church which is characterized by buildings, budgets, and bodies is not the Universal Church, ie  Catholic Church.  There is only one Church and it is made up of all who are called and chosen by God.  Those who have believed in their hearts and confessed with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord make up this Church.  These Church members are found under every label and have many different expressions but yet one body. 

[Fidei Defensor]

46 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Just want to agree with you.  The visible church which is characterized by buildings, budgets, and bodies is not the Universal Church, ie  Catholic Church.  There is only one Church and it is made up of all who are called and chosen by God.  Those who have believed in their hearts and confessed with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord make up this Church.  These Church members are found under every label and have many different expressions but yet one body. 

Amen! You have articulated the visible church perfectly.

The Church is indeed not a building, God never wanted a building (2 Samuel 7:1-53, 1 Chronicles 17:3-15, Acts 7:45-51), and it is us Christians who are the temples of God (1 Corinthians 3:16, Colossians 1:27, Hebrews 3:6). 

[Fidei Defensor]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

The ecumenical movement is not based upon the bible. Are you trying to say there is more then one ecumenical movement out there??  

There is indeed: “There are a variety of different expectations of what that Christian unity looks like, how it is brought about, what ecumenical methods ought to be engaged, and what both short- and long-term objectives of the ecumenical movement should be. Ecumenism and nondenominational or postdenominational movements are not necessarily the same thing. While some of these can be ecumenical in intent, normally nondenominationalism seeks no common organizing principle nor works toward the unity of Christians." (Wikipedia)

[frienduff thaylorde]

18 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Unitas is coming. The persecution of the Church is bringing forth a unity among Christ’s body. We need each other more than ever. We will always have denominational differences, but we can help one another and love one another. 

IT is ,  but its not coming the way most think it is ,     soon as this ecumincal unity runs its course ,    the true lambs who rejected this

will more than ever be united in a common cause to preach ONLY JESUS .    oh , their is a true reformation already building .    We going to see more coming out of these churches

and speaking against this .    While we will also see the worlds largest ecumenical move that accepts all as is ,   you will see gays supporting it , muslims , christains , many renown leaders

We will also see the true lambs doing real exploits to warn out against this all inclusive pc ecumenical move .   and these will not be renown men and women

they will be the poor lowly ordinary ones who the churches have mocked for years .   it will be the ones who did not go along with the ecumenical movement

and that society cast out as haters of humanity .     to the world , churchs  , pc inclusive , even those falling for the religions joining for religious tolerance , they will join in one common mindset and that will be the dire need for unity at all costs .    these will in time come against the true saints , and the true saints world wide will only be seen as outcasts of society

, dangerous ,   alarmist ,    a danger to themselves and others .     And they will come against the true flocks , who are scattered, even now coming out from among false churches .

These even now are being called haters for warning out against books like satans shack .     They are already being called of the anti Christ spirit and sons of perdition

by the lukewarm sold out .     But its going to get far worse .

WE forgot something and it cost the churches EVERYTHING .  we forgot something and it cost them their souls , lest some repent of this .

We forgot to take JESUS SERIOUS .   its true .       Let us all bow our heads and cry and pray that many will simply come out from among them .

The churches bought the lie a while back .    YOU SEE,    JESUS made it clear WHY one wont come to him , but these men forgot all that .

So I want to remind all ,      JESUS said , MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE  .  JESUS said MY SHEEP will not follow the voice of strangers .

JESUS told those who rejected Him ,  YOU do not hear , because as I said , You are not of my sheep .   

But men forgot this .   JESUS said no man can come to ME lest the FATHER draw HIM ,   but men forgot this

and they changed Evangelism .   OH YES this caused the begginig of a total collapse .  under this angenda , it was always going to lead to THE AGENDA .

for men of THE agenda were the ones who went about to change evangelism .      OH yes , rick warren DESTROYED evangelism and folks loved to have this new way so .

OH YES men forgot that the ONLY REASON men wont come is because they love darkness and not LIGHT .

and they deceived the masses into believing we should pander to the unrepentant in order to win them .   But when you change theway to win souls and allure

through what THEY DESIRE ,     SHOOT ,   you aint winning anyone to JESUS .

It became the satans seeker friendly , and folks bought it , cause seeker friendly SOUNDS right , I mean the words seek and friendly don't sound evil at all.

BUT its the way they did it .    IT DESROYED and set the churches up for a big falling away when unchanged men came in and had no desire to repent

were not even told their sin was sin ,  and it caused no soul to come to JESUS , what it caused was the church to fall away .

OH YES .    and now it set the churches up for the greatest falling away ever .  for now the mindset it ,   don't warn out against any religion even , don't evangelize

the old way ,  just sit , find common ground and this will cause all to fall away into the darkest and deadliest decepetion , as in time , saying even that JESUS is the only way

will seem offensive and not love , for they will think we all worshipped the same God in different ways .   GET unequaly yoked and they always fall away .

SEE we should have kept JESUS words ON OUR HEART , we should have kept HIS PATTERN , we should have kept the apostels pattern in EVERYTHING .

DID JESUS ever tell the jews who did not want to hear him ,   YOU do not hear me , because people treated you not the way you wanted to be

OR did he say you hear me not , cause bad examples of evangelizing .   NO .  HE SAID you hear me not because you are NOT MY SHEEP .

SEE we forgot that and fellfor lies which destroyed the church .  BUT THE ONLY REASON one wont come is , they love darkness more than light

and OF COURSE they will tell you , oh its this reason , its that reaons , this happened to me orthat happened to me . NO , THE SHEEP no matter what WILL HEAR>

we should have just preached SOUND DOCTRINE the GOSPLE , and understood that JESUS who cant lie ,  said the ONLY ONLY ONLY reason men wont come

is because they love darkness more than light .  OR only the FATHER can draw them , OR only the sheep will hear , OR only the elect will hear.

WE SHOULD have never changed how to evangelize , this was the doing of satan and his minstirs ,     OH we need to lay in sackclothe and ash and pray forgiveness . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

The ecumenical movement is not based upon the bible. Are you trying to say there is more then one ecumenical movement out there??  

Davida ,    WHY do you in your heart , honestly believe their is such a push for unity .     ITS AN AGENDA.  

Look at their common words ,   we need to just agree on the basic doctrine and come together in unity .  THE POPE has sold this , and he aint alone .

THEY are slick , very clever davida .   Paul warned about such men ,  they know how to deceive , they know how to with words allure .

HOW many folks do we hear that know how to say the right things .   EVEN the catholic church sold its sham by saying we all say its by grace now .

THEY are deceivers .  But they are clever .   Because they say things like ,  hey we all believe in JESUS , we all believe in the bible , we all believe in the trinity

and thus we should just join together for that .  BUT ,  but what doctrines to all these teach .  HOW many times you hear folks say we saved by grace

ONLY to find out , ITS NOT the same version of grace .  Folks Have nothing to do with any of this . NOTHING .   we have our unity already , the lambs WHO LOVE JESUS

will gather with those who LOVE JESUS .   WE don't need this faiths all coming together ,    BECAUSE really its all a sham .    ITS Not what this is really all about .

ANYONE can find out in no time ,  ROME is behind this and has spoken with the top false leaders of EVERY denomination and they selling this idea to their own people

Fidie , needs to cease this .  and we need to focus ONLY ON JESUS , ONLY ON THE BIBLE , only on the pattern JESUS set and the aposetls kept .  its that simple

all the rest of this ecumnicalims is a sham and deceit .