Old Earth or Young Earth

[HAZARD]

7 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

By now after 3100+ posts, you should remember that I'm a fervent supporter of the Gap Theory and an Old Earth.  Unless you've changed, I thought you were too.  The Gap Theory is the most literal interpretation of Holy Scripture.

My apologies, I misunderstood this statement thinking you may have changed you view.

"In short, the gap theory as I’ve explained it is based on the narrowest and most literal interpretation of Scripture."

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[SavedOnebyGrace]

18 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

My apologies, I misunderstood this statement thinking you may have changed you view.

 

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The key words in that sentence are the most literal interpretation of Scripture.  It's the same view I've studied and held for around 35 years.  If I wasn't already a Gap Theory believer,  I would be now because of your excellent arguments taking on all comers.

[HAZARD]

11 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

The key words in that sentence are the most literal interpretation of Scripture.  It's the same view I've studied and held for around 35 years.  If I wasn't already a Gap Theory believer,  I would be now because of your excellent arguments taking on all comers.

You are too kind, and again I apologise for my error. God bless you!

[SavedOnebyGrace]

Just now, HAZARD said:

You are too kind, and again I apologise for my error. God bless you!

God bless you too!  I wish everyone dug as deep into Holy Scriptures as you do, myself included.

[FresnoJoe]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:50 AM, Allroses48 said:

The Young Earth theory was first started by an Irish archbishop and St. Bede in the 1600's+/- a few years. The early Hebrew and Christians never believed the earth was young. This was the product of very bad math done on the Bible. I believe the God created the universe and science tells us how it happened. The early Hebrews and Christians also believed the 7 day creation was an allegory as the word for yom has multiple meanings not just a 24 hour period, but an unknown space of time. The only problem I have with the evolution theory is that God isn't included and some of the testing instruments can yield questionable data.

Every

Then God said, "Let there be lights in the sky to separate the day from the night. They will be signs and will mark religious festivals, days, and years. They will be lights in the sky to shine on the earth." And so it was.

God made the two bright lights: the larger light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night. He also made the stars.

God put them in the sky to give light to the earth, to dominate the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. 19There was evening, then morning-a fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Saturday

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you.

For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy. Exodus 20:8-11 (New Living Translation)

The Creator, Jesus Is Worshiped

To me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:8-9 (American King James Version)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[hmbld]

32 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

The key words in that sentence are the most literal interpretation of Scripture.  It's the same view I've studied and held for around 35 years.  If I wasn't already a Gap Theory believer,  I would be now because of your excellent arguments taking on all comers.

In addition to Shiloh's contributing post that I have never seen rebutted, I literally read 7 days of creation, followed by genealogy all the way to Jesus.  Which puzzles me how you would say "the most literal interpretation", when its not literal at all, its adding what is not there?  And then again there is the fact that God did not build upon death, as Enoob pointed out.  

[SavedOnebyGrace]

14 hours ago, hmbld said:

In addition to Shiloh's contributing post that I have never seen rebutted, I literally read 7 days of creation, followed by genealogy all the way to Jesus.  Which puzzles me how you would say "the most literal interpretation", when its not literal at all, its adding what is not there?  And then again there is the fact that God did not build upon death, as Enoob pointed out.  

I wouldn't know what shiloh357 writes because I have him on Ignore, permanently.  I will no longer tolerate his anti-Christian behavior to me [period].  I forgive his personal attacks but I don't have to associate with him.

Neither you nor anyone else has successfully shown logical arguments disputing the Gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3.  Before Day 1 of remaking the land,  there was water that the Holy Spirit was brooding over, there was sky, and there was land per Genesis 1:1.  You cannot call God a creator if He used materials created by someone else.  Since I believe in an almighty and loving Creator, God (in three persons) remade the land for human habitation.  He (the Trinity) remade the land in 6 solar days and rested, not that they needed to, on the 7th day.  This is indisputable if one takes a literal, narrow view of Creation.  It is the view of the Jews and early Christians.  My brother-in-Christ Hazard has provided ample rebuttal that I need not repeat here.

[OneLight]

On 5/12/2017 at 7:06 AM, shiloh357 said:

The Gap Theory is simply a non-starter because the Hebrew of Gen. 1:2 doesn't allow for it.   Gen. 1:1 and 1:2 have what we refer to as a "vav disjunctive."  That means that Gen. 1:1 is a complete thought.   Gen. 1:1 isn't a continuation of the truth statement of v. 1.

Gen. 1:2 starts off with the  word "and."   In Hebrew, "and" is one letter:  "vav,"  the 6th letter of the Hebrew alphabet.  When it occurs at the beginning of a verse, and is followed by a noun (in this case, "haeretz or "the earth")  it is a disjunctive, meaning it is not connected to the previous.  It is the beginning of a new thought. 

The Gap Theory depends on the word "ha-yah" (was)  to be translated as "became."  And it can be translated that way, depending on the context.   In this case, it cannot be translated that way.    If the "vav" at the beginning of v. 2 were followed by a verb, then ha-yah could and should be translated "became."  If that were the case, then Gen. 1:1 and 1:2 would form a "vav connective" or "vav conjunction" and verse 2 would flow from verse 1.  But that is not the case in this passage.

The "vav" disjunctive of 1:1 and 1:2 means that 1:1 is merely a synopsis and is no way connected to the new line of the thought of verse 2.   That means that the earth was not one thing in v. 1 but became something else in v. 2.  It completely torpedoes the Gap Theory from a biblical stand point.

 

On 5/12/2017 at 9:54 AM, shiloh357 said:

The Bible interprets itself and any place where the days of creation are mentioned elsewhere, outside of Genesis 1, they are spoken of as ordinary, 24 hour days, not longs epochs of time, as old earth proponents contend about Genesis 1. 

The Gap Theory ran into a theological quagmire, though and has been revised to evade the problem.   Originally, the Gap Theory stated that there was a pre-adamite human population.   This was a convenient way of accounting for cave men, Neanderthal, etc.  and the billions of years needed to account for alleged evolutionary changes in the  animal kingdom and in humanity.   Back in the day, many saw it as the bridge between the Bible and Evolution.

But the fact that God had to destroy that race of humanity raised a lot of concerns about the nature and character of God, namely why was that race of humans not eligible for redemption?   God's redemptive nature is immutable, but yet, God did not act redemptively toward these human beings.   Secondly, if God had to destroy a race of humans, then sin didn't originate with Adam as Paul stated.

So the Gap theory was revised to say that the earth was inhabited by an angelic kingdom led by Lucifer.  It wasn't revised because there was any biblical evidence to support the revision, but to avoid the obvious theological errors that the theory could not account for.    So it was really was no different than how the book of Mormon has had to edited and changed in order to avoid the obvious theological errors it contains.  

The Gap theory is a mess.

Now you have something to discuss.  Tuning someone out is no way to gain understanding or knowledge, neither are based on if you like someone or not.

[Guest shiloh357]

12 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

Now you have something to discuss.  Tuning someone out is no way to gain understanding or knowledge, neither are based on if you like someone or not.

How was I "tuning" anyone out??? I seriously don't understand where that came from.

[OneLight]

41 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

How was I "tuning" anyone out??? I seriously don't understand where that came from.

You weren't.  See below.

10 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I wouldn't know what shiloh357 writes because I have him on Ignore, permanently.  I will no longer tolerate his anti-Christian behavior to me [period].  I forgive his personal attacks but I don't have to associate with him.

Neither you nor anyone else has successfully shown logical arguments disputing the Gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3.  Before Day 1 of remaking the land,  there was water that the Holy Spirit was brooding over, there was sky, and there was land per Genesis 1:1.  You cannot call God a creator if He used materials created by someone else.  Since I believe in an almighty and loving Creator, God (in three persons) remade the land for human habitation.  He (the Trinity) remade the land in 6 solar days and rested, not that they needed to, on the 7th day.  This is indisputable if one takes a literal, narrow view of Creation.  It is the view of the Jews and early Christians.  My brother-in-Christ Hazard has provided ample rebuttal that I need not repeat here.