Jesus' Return

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Why would we want to recognize 2000 years ago? It has nothing to do with the rapture of the Church or the second coming. Unless your belief is preterist.

Shalom, missmuffet.

You've been MOST unfair with me, holding me up as some kind of example, and now you will be unfair with Enoch2010, too?! He is saying that those who were WITH the Messiah 2000 years ago didn't recognize Him then; so, how can we be sure that we will recognize Him when He returns in the near future (perhaps today)?

Punctuation can be a real nuisance, but he probably should have changed it like this:

6 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The question is: Will we recognize them (the signs)? 2000 years ago, the most religious people on earth didn't recognize the Messiah.

And, I AGREE with Enoch2010. For instance, you pre-tribbers think we'll be gone in the Rapture when the Antichrist comes on the scene. WHAT IF we DON'T go up to "Heaven" in a Rapture? When the Lord Yeshua` comes back, and you aren't taken away, would you call Him the "Antichrist" that you fear so much? How will you know the difference, since you believe that this "Antichrist" character is such an imitator of the real Christ, the real Messiah? Furthermore, if the Messiah does things you don't expect the real Messiah to do and doesn't do other things you do expect the real Messiah to do, what will keep you from making the mistake of saying, "This couldn't possibly be the real Christ"?

Edited May 14, 2017 by Retrobyter

[simplejeff]

6 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The question is will we recognize them, 2000 years ago, the most religious people on earth  didn't recognize the Messiah.

Adults,  scholars, educated ones just don't get it.

Little children already see and recognize all YHWH reveals ......

Just like 2000 years ago, eh ?

[missmuffet]

7 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, missmuffet.

You've been MOST unfair with me, holding me up as some kind of example, and now you will be unfair with Enoch2010, too?! He is saying that those who were WITH the Messiah 2000 years ago didn't recognize Him then; so, how can we be sure that we will recognize Him when He returns in the near future (perhaps today)?

Punctuation can be a real nuisance, but he probably should have changed it like this:

And, I AGREE with Enoch2010. For instance, you pre-tribbers think we'll be gone in the Rapture when the Antichrist comes on the scene. WHAT IF we DON'T go up to "Heaven" in a Rapture? When the Lord Yeshua` comes back, and you aren't taken away, would you call Him the "Antichrist" that you fear so much? How will you know the difference, since you believe that this "Antichrist" character is such an imitator of the real Christ, the real Messiah? Furthermore, if the Messiah does things you don't expect the real Messiah to do and doesn't do other things you do expect the real Messiah to do, what will keep you from making the mistake that "this couldn't possibly be the real Christ"?

I am not being unfair with anyone. I am just telling you what the Bible tells me.The world is full of "what ifs". I prefer to stay with what I believe. God bless

[Retrobyter]

9 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I am not being unfair with anyone. I am just telling you what the Bible tells me.The world is full of "what ifs". I prefer to stay with what I believe. God bless

Shalom, missmuffet.

Well, frankly, you haven't "told" me ANYTHING about what the Bible tells you! And, I DID tell you that I would give whatever you proffered a fair shake with an open mind, and you WOULDN'T give me any Scripture, not that you "couldn't," but you "WOULDN'T!" When you said, "You believe what you believe. I am not trying to get you to come over to my side," you REFUSED to give me information that I honestly would have accepted. I take that as a PERSONAL AFFRONT! I'm an honest man, almost to a fault! (Just ask my wife!) So, when I said I'd look at Scripture with an open mind, that's PRECISELY what I would have done! Therefore, you WERE being unfair with me!

James 2:14-17
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
KJV

So, "God bless" right back at ya!

[Churchmouse]

On 5/11/2017 at 10:22 AM, BacKaran said:

He tells us He's returning so be prepared today ?

I agree. Absolutely.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24%3A32-44&version=NKJV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&version=NLT

[Churchmouse]

8 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The question is will we recognize them, 2000 years ago, the most religious people on earth  didn't recognize the Messiah.

Wasn't that more to do with their own expectations of the Messiah, at that time. I too pondered this and I figured that if he did as he appeared as a man in robes he would be ridiculed, but the more I thought about it the more the idea that whatever we do to the least of these, you do to me, came into mind. I believe that in our own actions the world already sees him and what bothers me is that some who carry his name bring ridicule to him, not by doing his will, but claiming to do that, for the accolades of others.

I do believe that when Christ returns, he will do so in a most abrupt way and he the only thing he will be concerned about is who knows him out of faith, not recognize him in the face.  If I see a flash of light and look up at the sky to see four horseman appear I will need no introduction. I will just knell and thank God

[ENOCH2010]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, missmuffet.

You've been MOST unfair with me, holding me up as some kind of example, and now you will be unfair with Enoch2010, too?! He is saying that those who were WITH the Messiah 2000 years ago didn't recognize Him then; so, how can we be sure that we will recognize Him when He returns in the near future (perhaps today)?

Punctuation can be a real nuisance, but he probably should have changed it like this:

And, I AGREE with Enoch2010. For instance, you pre-tribbers think we'll be gone in the Rapture when the Antichrist comes on the scene. WHAT IF we DON'T go up to "Heaven" in a Rapture? When the Lord Yeshua` comes back, and you aren't taken away, would you call Him the "Antichrist" that you fear so much? How will you know the difference, since you believe that this "Antichrist" character is such an imitator of the real Christ, the real Messiah? Furthermore, if the Messiah does things you don't expect the real Messiah to do and doesn't do other things you do expect the real Messiah to do, what will keep you from making the mistake of saying, "This couldn't possibly be the real Christ"?

Correct Roy!! Many times I can't put my thoughts into words correctly. You seem to understand this old hillbilly.

[Guest BacKaran]

Eldios, this Beg's the question of why are you a non believer?

Edited May 15, 2017 by BacKaran

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, eldios said:

The reason no one recognized the messiah in the days of the first witness of the millennium reign of Christ is because most Jews were looking for a visible messiah. Instead, the got the voice ( gospel ) of God preached to them by God's trusted servants for the 300 years of the first witness. Now we've been in the second witness and religious people still don't recognize the messiah being preached to them. They're looking for a visible messiah who they think is Jesus instead of spoken words from the gospel of God from a servant who possesses the mind of Christ. 

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 
 

The Word of God is spoken through a servant from the knowledge called Christ. Christ is the knowledge without Lucifer and the beast. Lucifer ( false prophet ) and the beast will be destroyed on the day of the Lord with the fire of God so that Christ will reign for eternity. A new heaven and earth will appear after the day of the Lord and new images and thoughts will come from Christ. 

Shalom, eldios.

No, you don't know what you're talking about. The "gospel" or the "good news" was what they, the Jews, ALREADY KNEW, namely,

Isaiah 52:7-12
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation (rescue) of our God.
11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.
12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rearward.
KJV

When God reigns in Jerusalem through His Anointed One - His Messiah - His Christ, they will publish the good news to all of His people, to all of the children of Israel, wherever they may be living at the time, that "YHWH has comforted His people; He has redeemed (bought back) Jerusalem!" YHWH has rolled up His sleeve, making His arm bare in the sight of all the Goyim, and all the ends of the earth shall watch God RESCUE HIS PEOPLE! This will LITERALLY be done! Don't go and try to make some allegorical nonsense out of this passage of Scripture; it WON'T WORK! Yeshua` Himself used this passage:

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God (Greek: keerussoon to euaggelion tees basileias tou theou = "heralding the good-news of-the kingdom of-the God"),
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (Greek: eeggiken = "is-within-your-grasp"): repent ye, and believe the gospel.
KJV

This was said at the BEGINNING of Yeshua`s offer of the Kingdom to Israel, long before anyone even THOUGHT about Yeshua` being put on a cross! In fact, no one who believed He was the Messiah would have even IMAGINED that He would die! But, the handwriting was already on the wall with the inprisonment of His herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist).

The children of Israel during His time ALREADY KNEW what this "good news" was. He NEVER said "learn what the gospel is"; He just said, "repent ye (turn yourself around 180 degrees), and BELIEVE the good news!" See, up until this time, the prophecies about a future Messiah were like children's fairy tales. They believed the stories about the Messiah like Martha did:

John 11:21-27
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ (the Messiah), the Son of God, which should come into the world.
KJV

When Yeshua` first said the words, "Thy brother shall rise again," she rattled off the rhetoric of the prophecy: "Oh, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrecion at the last day." You can just HEAR how shallow those words were to her! They may even had been said in a sing-songy way, like something a child would learn for catechism or Sunday School!

Yeshua` snapped her back to the concrete reality of what He was saying: "I - I - I AM the Resurrection and the Life!"

In other words, He was saying, "You don't have to wait until 'the resurrection at the last day'; I am that Resurrection! And, I'm here TODAY!"

So, when they thought about God's Ultimate Messiah foretold in prophecy, it was a dream, a wish, a thing that might happen in the "sweet by and by" SOMEDAY (maybe)! But, Yeshua` instructed them to "believe the good news," as something that could happen in THEIR lifetime, because the King Apparent !

It was the leaders of the Jews - the elders of the tribe of Y'hudah (Judah) - who were responsible for rejecting their King Elect, Yeshua` the Messiah of God. However, when they rejected Him, little did they know that their rejection was what set in motion the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Messiah Son of Yosef (Joseph) - the Suffering and Dying Messiah. On the other hand, by rejecting Him, He took back His offer of the Kingdom for a later date and set into motion the beginnings of the "tribulation" by leaving them "desolate," a partial fulfillment of Daniel 9:27 (Matt. 23:37-39).

Daniel 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy.
KJV

It's not the Kingdom that's been happening over the last 2,000 years; it's "the Time of Jacob's Trouble" (Jer. 30:7) - the "Tribulation" (NT:2347 in Matt. 24:9, 21, 29) - that's been happening, also known as "the times of the Gentiles!" (Rom. 11:25) While some say that the Tribulation is 7 years long (some say the Great Tribulation is 3.5 years long), the 7 years of the 70th Seven, which were part of the 70 Sevens of Daniel 9, were SPLIT in two and the "Tribulation" fell BETWEEN the two halves.

The bottom line is that Revelation has NOT been fulfilled, yet.

[gdemoss]

To be part of the ones who recognize the signs of his coming, one needs only be a lover of and doer of the truth.  If you are as he is in this world then there is nothing to worry about.  God shows his servants what he is going to do before he does it.