Sight

God's Will, and Social Group Dynamics

24 posts in this topic

(Sounds like a complicated title, but I will try to simplify and explain. Scroll to the bottom for the main question)

(WARNING: Some of you are not going to like me after reading this. So be it)

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I'm part of a group...let's consider it a "Chamber Of Commerce club", for reference purposes.

We have different people in there. I have 4 couples who are mentors to me in different areas of life, and I have about 18-20 people in association with me. We're all driven to achieve the same goals, similar lofty dreams, and a unified vision of excellence we will bust our butts for.

 

I was the first of them. Then, after many readjustments, promotions, demotions, and timing, we have a solidified team formed.

After me, is this snotty, arrogant, silver-spooned self-entitled pompous jerk, who ends up marrying one of my mentor's daughters, and for some reason, was, and somewhat is still bountifully blessed by God. Born again at a young age, his dad is an elder at the church I go to (That's where my mentor's daughter met him, and fell in love, blah blah blah, whatever...), and God seems to have given him whatever he wanted, and he is skilled at everything. This guy is the reason I spent 5 years cursing Jesus, and mocking the bible and God. I dont like the guy, and probably will never forgive him. Dont really care.

There's another guy, who I was friends with for a while, who has his fiancee (soon to be wife), who is an awesome human being, and an all around good guy. We got along, and still get along somewhat, but he's been able to figure out how to work success in his favor, and is slowly building his own influence. I understand why we talk less, and he's getting mentored by higher ups, and his demeanor has changed. HIM, I can forgive, because I know his heart and kindness, and understand he is merely watching his associations so he doesnt screw up his momentum. Good for him.

The third guy...is 5 years younger than me, but that's irrelevant. He was born in the same city I was, and is also dating another one of my mentor's daughters (He has 3, 2 are dating people in my association). He is strong, confident, forward moving, and mentorable. Also a good guy all around, and we have a lot in common, and get along just fine. Unlike the other guy (to which they will both become brothers-in-law eventually), he's humble and respectful, and knows how to be a rounded person.

 

I'll get back to the first guy...there are some other people who are kind of "next generation", and still have yet to form a relationship with them, but let's get into...the painful people I have to deal with.

 

One guy...is basically one of the world's most filthiest, disgusting, unhygenic human beings. At first, we had a close friendship, because in addition to him (appearing) being kind, we could relate on a LOT of things, and that was ok. Over time, however, he began to reveal his true colors...opportunist, ride moocher, emotional manipulator, idiot, unaware fool, lack of discernment, no judge of character, bad associations, clumsy, awkward...you name it. He was filthy. Didn't take care of himself. Always took advantage whenever he knew he could. Sinks his tentacles through friendship, and sucks his victims dry...I cared for him, and wanted to rise with him, but he CHOSE to remain a leech, and he's still around my association, and I cant keep him away from me.

 

He brings in:

- Another guy who's 6 years older than me, married to a wife who hates him, father of a girl who has too many problems to bear, and he himself...is a bumbling moron. Stupid is too nice of a word to describe him. The social awkwardness, his lack of manners, the way he shoddily dresses, the clumsiness, him being a uncomfortable person to be around...I literally have to tell him how to dress and behave. He's an embarassment to existence, and does nothing to improve or change himself. He's even worse than the above guy, and the above guy brings him into the association, saying "I believe in his potential". I want both of them to dissappear.

 

There's a last couple, but they're not so bad. The guy is a computer genius, and has great tech credentials. Unfortunately, he's a total klutz, and socially inept. He's not as bad as the rest, but the first guy (Filthy guy) manipulated him into moving in, sharing resources, riding in his car, and using him as his supply partner. Worse, he saddles him up with the girl...she's nice, and kind, and sweet. I have no problems with her; she just needs to get a car, but anyway...

 

Here's the thing folks, and why I write this thread: I am stuck going between jobs, living at home with the folks, struggling to network and connect with people...

 

...it's as if everywhere I go, the losers in life flock to me, and the winners seem to walk past. I havent figured that one out yet.

 

I know what you're about to say..."Sight, Jesus would love them/Be nice/Your mission is to serve them"...yeah, I dont care.

 

Serving is one thing. Being there is one thing, but my primary association isnt among socially unacceptable losers. It's to be among the movers and shakers in life. Some of you are going to say "That's anti-biblical"...keep your mouth shut and dont talk to me about that. I know what you're thinking, and you're wrong.

 

The jerk snob I told you about? Born-again Christian

The other guy who's about to get married? Born-again Christian.

The young guy who was born in the same town as I? Born-again Christian.

 

And those disaster area people I told you about? ALSO Born-again Christians.

 

This isn't a question of "Jesus vs non-Jesus". This is a situation of some Christians having better lives than other Christians, AND I WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER BE OK WITH THAT UNTIL SOMEONE GIVES ME A SATISFACTORY EXPLANATION OF WHY THIS IS.

 

THEY ALL believe in Jesus Christ, so dont give me any of that "Give to the poor" baloney. I wont have it, nor will I take you seriously, NOR will I spare you any insults.

If winners can be accepted in Jesus, so can I, but God keeps the losers around me. I DONT HAVE TIME TO DEAL WITH LOSERS, yet God keeps sending them my way. God keeps sending me people I dont want to associate with, yet they keep following me like fleas on a dog. That tells me that perhaps I am a loser. Folks...that is reason enough for me to tell Jesus to take a hike, even WITH the scripture I'm already standing on.

 

This post might have offended some of you. I REALLY REALLY DONT GIVE A FLYING RIP HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT. This is the situation. I will ask the difficult questions. Some of you will not like me. Sorry. Cant say I care. But, I will get to the bottom of this one way or the other, even if other people's tears have to be shed. I am a winner and a bulldog, and I do whatever it takes to get to the core, even if at your expense.

 

Yes, I read the bible.

Yes, I know the word of God.

Yes, I have accepted Jesus Christ as my LORD and savior, and have fallen at the foot of the cross to obtain his mercy.

 

I'm not a mean person, I am just a bulldogged fighter. I get my nose into everyone's face. Whatever it takes to get to the truth, I do it, even if it means I offend you. The truth is of higher priority than your feelings.

 

That said, sorry. But, here's the thing: I dont want losers flocking around me. I want to attract winners to me. Even if "losers" are mixed in with winners, I can deal with that, but I do not want undesirable people flocking around me as if I'm the last bottle of water in a desert.

 

I'm even starting to understand how beautiful, attractive women feel when creepy guys try to hit on them. It's not a fun feeling. Yes, I know what I have posted doesn't seem Christian. What YOU need to understand is...Christian or non-Christian, value is value, and association is association.

 

Name your top 5 people you hang out with, and I'll tell you where you're going to be in 2-5 years. Principles are as old as God's word. Read Proverbs if you dont believe me; there are many chapters on who to associate with, and who to avoid.

 

TL:DR - Why do certain types of people flock to me, and how do I change the type of people who get around me?

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Hey Sight,

I know you were asking questions the other day too.

I just saw your comments in the group chat, so looked for your post. And for what its worth, here is my two cents...

Have you ever known a family and wondered how they could all be related despite them all being so different?

I think the same goes for Christians. I have always thought of Christians as people who are acknowledging that they have done wrong and that they need Jesus. We are all at different stages in our walks with the Lord, even though we have chosen to belong to a new family of Christ. And so, not everyone who calls himself a Christian is at the same level of maturity. 

So just because someone calls himself a Christian, it does not mean that I am going to blindly follow him. I have a few people who I really respect and look up to for advice. I know that they will not just say what I want them to say and I value their input. 

However, I do think that there are people that may be in our lives so that we can both grow. Some of this growth may not be comfortable. Some of what you are going through may not be comfortable, but could it be a period of growth for you, or be an opportunity for you to be able to be a guide to others who, though on the journey, need someone to come alongside them.

Hope it helps,

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Annette said:

Hey Sight,

I know you were asking questions the other day too.

I just saw your comments in the group chat, so looked for your post. And for what its worth, here is my two cents...

Have you ever known a family and wondered how they could all be related despite them all being so different?

I think the same goes for Christians. I have always thought of Christians as people who are acknowledging that they have done wrong and that they need Jesus. We are all at different stages in our walks with the Lord, even though we have chosen to belong to a new family of Christ. And so, not everyone who calls himself a Christian is at the same level of maturity. 

So just because someone calls himself a Christian, it does not mean that I am going to blindly follow him. I have a few people who I really respect and look up to for advice. I know that they will not just say what I want them to say and I value their input. 

However, I do think that there are people that may be in our lives so that we can both grow. Some of this growth may not be comfortable. Some of what you are going through may not be comfortable, but could it be a period of growth for you, or be an opportunity for you to be able to be a guide to others who, though on the journey, need someone to come alongside them.

Hope it helps,

Annette, thank you for sharing. I would like to leave this post in place for future editing, so I can really take in what you've said, and hopefully share a more INFINITELY POSITIVE feedback so many can grow from this. Thank you again! :)

 

EDIT: [ Once I understand the above ]

 

RESPONSE ---> In terms of family, yes. I myself, have a VERY large family on both sides (Father / Mother). Many family members are different in their own right...different levels of living.

Jesus did indeed forgive us ALL (that is, ALL who accept him) of their sins, and we are led to repent and never sin again. However, different people that WERE forgiven still attract different qualities of life, and while I am saved, I will not settle for 2nd, 3rd, or last place. I will fight, knowing yes, I am forgiven, but I will still fight.

 

I am VERY careful as to who I allow to influence my life. I cut out what doesn't work, and get around what does. That concept...MATURITY as a christian...makes a lot of sense, which makes me ask myself: Am I immature in Christ, or is this who God intends for me to be? If it's immaturity, perhaps I need to study the word more closely. If it's God's will for losers to flock to me, well, best be assured I will put up a bloody fight, but with what I read, no, that's not the case. It's definitely a lack of maturity. God is too good to allow mature Christians to do unpleasant things...IF said Christian was led by the LORD to do something unpleasant (like preach the gospel in Somalia, Uganda, Afghanistan, or Kenya, for example), then that person would be given a love and heart for it by the LORD to fulfill that will. One only need study Acts, and the letters of Paul to understand what Paul (formerly Saul) had to go through. It was horrible, but the spirit was ALIVE in Paul through the midst of it.

 

So maturity is definitely something to reflect on...for THAT, it sure helped Annette, thank you!

As for being a guide, I have no problem with that. The problem...is in primary association...what I tend to ATTRACT towards my existence. I will guide those I dont want to associate with, but I do not want to ATTRACT them to my presence. As my mentors define what is right and not right, so I wish to define boundaries with people I dont want near me.

Edited by Sight
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10 hours ago, Sight said:

Annette, thank you for sharing. I would like to leave this post in place for future editing, so I can really take in what you've said, and hopefully share a more INFINITELY POSITIVE feedback so many can grow from this. Thank you again! :)

 

EDIT: [ Once I understand the above ]

 

RESPONSE ---> In terms of family, yes. I myself, have a VERY large family on both sides (Father / Mother). Many family members are different in their own right...different levels of living.

Jesus did indeed forgive us ALL (that is, ALL who accept him) of their sins, and we are led to repent and never sin again. However, different people that WERE forgiven still attract different qualities of life, and while I am saved, I will not settle for 2nd, 3rd, or last place. I will fight, knowing yes, I am forgiven, but I will still fight.

 

I am VERY careful as to who I allow to influence my life. I cut out what doesn't work, and get around what does. That concept...MATURITY as a christian...makes a lot of sense, which makes me ask myself: Am I immature in Christ, or is this who God intends for me to be? If it's immaturity, perhaps I need to study the word more closely. If it's God's will for losers to flock to me, well, best be assured I will put up a bloody fight, but with what I read, no, that's not the case. It's definitely a lack of maturity. God is too good to allow mature Christians to do unpleasant things...IF said Christian was led by the LORD to do something unpleasant (like preach the gospel in Somalia, Uganda, Afghanistan, or Kenya, for example), then that person would be given a love and heart for it by the LORD to fulfill that will. One only need study Acts, and the letters of Paul to understand what Paul (formerly Saul) had to go through. It was horrible, but the spirit was ALIVE in Paul through the midst of it.

 

So maturity is definitely something to reflect on...for THAT, it sure helped Annette, thank you!

As for being a guide, I have no problem with that. The problem...is in primary association...what I tend to ATTRACT towards my existence. I will guide those I dont want to associate with, but I do not want to ATTRACT them to my presence. As my mentors define what is right and not right, so I wish to define boundaries with people I dont want near me.

Hey Sight, 

Some of what I shared has been taken from my own life experience. So, I am glad that I could share it with you.

Blessings.

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Posted (edited)

I don't really see human beings as losers or winners. Too me they are just human beings. I've also never understood the mentality of "if you're not successful in life you're a loser". That value in and of itself is the very thing Christ spoke against : pride, vanity, riches, success, looking down on others. Christ lost everything to gain it all. He wasn't rich, wasn't successful, was a basic carpenters son and was in fact hated and despised by all the Jewish people who were considered winners. Remember Christ sat down with the losers of this world: criminals, prostitutes, lepers, thieves. He never had anything good to say about the rich, wealthy, and successful. What profits a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? Maybe "losers" flock to you to teach you a lesson in humility and self awareness. We always think we are so much better than other folks, until we get slapped upside the head with reality. At the end of the day we all stink, we all need to bathe, we all go #2. Nobody is perfect in God's eyes. In fact we are literally specks of dust to Him but he died for that light that shines through the dust. 

 

Edited by Allroses48
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Allroses48 said:

I don't really see human beings as losers or winners. Too me they are just human beings. I've also never understood the mentality of "if you're not successful in life you're a loser". That value in and of itself is the very thing Christ spoke against : pride, vanity, riches, success, looking down on others. Christ lost everything to gain it all. He wasn't rich, wasn't successful, was a basic carpenters son and was in fact hated and despised by all the Jewish people who were considered winners. Remember Christ sat down with the losers of this world: criminals, prostitutes, lepers, thieves. He never had anything good to say about the rich, wealthy, and successful. What profits a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? Maybe "losers" flock to you to teach you a lesson in humility and self awareness. We always think we are so much better than other folks, until we get slapped upside the head with reality. At the end of the day we all stink, we all need to bathe, we all go #2. Nobody is perfect in God's eyes. In fact we are literally specks of dust to Him but he died for that light that shines through the dust. 

 

And this is why I may not make it through this. I will explain:

- Yes, there are winners, and losers in life, whether you, or anyone else likes it or not. I am not being rude; I am being factual. This is life.

- Yes, I know Christ spoke against it. THAT IS MY NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH BOTH JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, AND CHRISTIANS...You all speak against gain and victory. Yes, Christ lost everything to gain it all, so I, and you, and others DONT HAVE TO. He did the work, and gave us a free gift, and I am ok with taking that free gift for myself.

- Jesus wasn't rich, he wasn't successful, he indeed was a carpenters son, and was indeed hated by all the Jewish people of that time. WHAT YOU FORGET, as well as every other Christian seems to forget, is that THIS was God's will for his only son. It HAD to happen. It's not something we need to choose. The BIGGEST FAULTY LOGIC I find in 95% of Christians is that, for some reason, you all think and feel you have to suffer like Jesus did. No you dont, he did it for you. In another instance, Paul suffered for the sake of validating the gospel, but that doesnt mean YOU have to suffer. 

- Yes, Jesus sat down with the losers of the world, and the dirty. Fantastic, THAT WAS JESUS, NOT ME, and I dont really have to do the same if I dont want to. Jesus never had anything nice to say to the wealthy and powerful of the time because they wouldnt be able to recognize him as the son of God; like the parable of the sower, they were choked by the thorns (world's distractions) and never bore fruit. But at that time, he hadn't died yet, so they couldnt be forgiven, and probably chose NOT to be forgiven after his death.

- No, I'm not being taught a lesson. I KNOW what's a lesson, and what's simply inconvenience and the power of attraction at work. Yes, we are all the same, but I simply do not want people who fail at life around my presence. Judge me for what you will; I demand excellence in everything, and if a person isn't willing to grow with me, I cannot invest time with them.

 

This post proves you dont get it. Again, I'm going to REALLY play hardball with all of you on this one. Hard enough to evoke emotions and trigger you. Listen, I understand your perspective, but it is unacceptable. I am looking for answers, not for rationalizations.

 

 

I RESTATE THE QUESTION:

Why do certain types of people flock to me, and how do I change the type of people who get around me?

Edited by Sight
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Well for me it wasn't a rationalization. You say the power of attraction is at work. It would make sense if the very faults you find in those around you are the exact ones you suffer from yourself. I don't feel triggered at all. My perspective is that there's more to life than material success. Like Christ said what profits a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul. We often don't want to see our own faults reflected in others. You seem extremely driven to success as if that's what the goal of life is. Are your values in line with Christ's values? Have you ever asked yourself who taught you you weren't good enough if you weren't successful? 

People look at me and they don't see success. I'm not married, no kids, I'm underemployed and overeducated. I am a shy introverted person and much of societies values of what a person should be repulses me. Guys would have the fancy car, clothes, and job and I just wasn't taking them up on their offers. Women had fake nails, cake makeup, and designer clothes and I just couldn't see myself like that as a female. Fashion trends grossed me out and as did the nauseating fakery. Give me a job where I can help people, my yarn, my garden some family members and friends and I'm just fine. Maybe it's my Mennonite roots speaking here but I truly believe your values are screwed up and that's why you feel the way you do. If you're always chasing perfection and success, you will always be  a slave to rejection, judgment, and failure. Perhaps somewhere deep down someone said to you you're not a real man if you're not a-d. Just a thought. 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Allroses48 said:

Well for me it wasn't a rationalization. You say the power of attraction is at work. It would make sense if the very faults you find in those around you are the exact ones you suffer from yourself. I don't feel triggered at all. My perspective is that there's more to life than material success. Like Christ said what profits a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul. We often don't want to see our own faults reflected in others. You seem extremely driven to success as if that's what the goal of life is. Are your values in line with Christ's values? Have you ever asked yourself who taught you you weren't good enough if you weren't successful? 

People look at me and they don't see success. I'm not married, no kids, I'm underemployed and overeducated. I am a shy introverted person and much of societies values of what a person should be repulses me. Guys would have the fancy car, clothes, and job and I just wasn't taking them up on their offers. Women had fake nails, cake makeup, and designer clothes and I just couldn't see myself like that as a female. Fashion trends grossed me out and as did the nauseating fakery. Give me a job where I can help people, my yarn, my garden some family members and friends and I'm just fine. Maybe it's my Mennonite roots speaking here but I truly believe your values are screwed up and that's why you feel the way you do. If you're always chasing perfection and success, you will always be  a slave to rejection, judgment, and failure. Perhaps somewhere deep down someone said to you you're not a real man if you're not a-d. Just a thought. 

I dont want to be a loser. I never wanted to be a loser. I seem to be treated like dirt by others since I was a kid. I never knew why. Others seemed to get whatever they wanted. I never understood it. All I wanted was a place in the world, and since my childhood, I have failed hundreds, if not, thousands of times trying everything in my power to find what I was skilled in.

I never asked to be a loser among people. God seemed to ordain that for me naturally. I feel weak, pathetic, and disgusting having to depend on Jesus Christ for my own sense of life satisfaction. All my faith in him to this day has been on the premise of faith...I have no evidence to determine if he even existed, if he's real, or if Christianity has ANY sound basis at all. I chose to believe because everything else in the world was false, evil, and fake. I dont like Jesus. I dont like Christianity. I dont like you, or anyone else on here. I made the decision to believe for the sake of the truth, and it seems like I will never get what I want out of it, which makes me angry at all of you even more.

I'm sorry you are how you described you are. I have nothing in common with you. YOU ARE COMPLACENT. I am ambitious. Why are so many of you Christians such quitters at life? You give up on everything and chalk up your existence to being God's will. That's baloney. You're capable of much more, but for some reason, you refuse to rise up and be all you can be. I cannot respect people like that.  When I study the scenario, I cant make a dent in life, where others have, and when I strike the common denominator, they arent Christians. Non Christians win more than Christians.

 

Makes me think...what is it about you Christian people that makes you poor, weak, and useless in the world? I didnt accept Jesus to become weak and pathetic like the lot of you. I came to win. I know what I want, and it seems like I will never have it...I am a useless loser just like the rest of you, apparently. You people dont seem to understand that I cant see what you see. Why do you choose to live passively and without any sense of growth? Are you THAT passive and complacent? Are you that much of a coward in life that you cant make a difference? But if I reject Jesus, sure, I can have the world, but I will become reprobate, and burn in hell. That defeats the purpose.

 

Either way, I lose. I dont care about the gospel. I dont care about the word. I dont care about you. I just want to win, and I guess I'm the fool for trying to find a Christian success story on a website full of derelect rejects of life that have no value to this world. Yeah, I just said that. Think what you want. I'm tired of trying to find Christian success stories. All I find are losers, rejects, and fools

 

Will I find the person I'm looking for here? Maybe I have FAITH I will. The kid gloves are off. I'm not going to play nice anymore. It's either I find what I'm looking for, or I will bring down the house trying.

Edited by Sight
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Your comments about your beliefs, history, how your feel, and the people around you make sense in some ways to me.  I came to this forum in the hope of finding rational discussion, so here are a few questions and comments.   See what you think.

I dont want to be a loser. I never wanted to be a loser. I seem to be treated like dirt by others since I was a kid. I never knew why. Others seemed to get whatever they wanted. I never understood it. All I wanted was a place in the world, and since my childhood, I have failed hundreds, if not, thousands of times trying everything in my power to find what I was skilled in.  What defines someone as a loser?  I know many people with expensive toys, high paying jobs, yet are very stressed and generally unhappy.  Are some generally happy but poor a loser, or does being a loser involve mostly social dynamics, i.e. how people treat them.  What defines the opposite, a winner?

I never asked to be a loser among people. God seemed to ordain that for me naturally. I feel weak, pathetic, and disgusting having to depend on Jesus Christ for my own sense of life satisfaction.  All my faith in him to this day has been on the premise of faith...I have no evidence to determine if he even existed, if he's real, or if Christianity has ANY sound basis at all. I chose to believe because everything else in the world was false, evil, and fake. I dont like Jesus. I dont like Christianity. I dont like you, or anyone else on here. I made the decision to believe for the sake of the truth, and it seems like I will never get what I want out of it, which makes me angry at all of you even more.  It sounds like you're mad you haven't found what you're skilled in, mad that you feel weak and dependent on your Christian beliefs, question those beliefs, and yet believe all that will lead you to never get what you want.   How do Christian beliefs lead to being a loser, weak, and pathetic?  As a child, I was told I was in complete control of my mind and body, so if I didn't like something or wanted it to change I should figure it out and change it.  Blaming and getting mad were ways of accepting defeat.  Still, I'm not seeing connections between this and Christian beliefs.  

I'm sorry you are how you described you are. I have nothing in common with you. YOU ARE COMPLACENT. I am ambitious. Why are so many of you Christians such quitters at life? You give up on everything and chalk up your existence to being God's will. That's baloney. You're capable of much more, but for some reason, I cant make a dent in life, where others have, and when I strike the common denominator, they arent Christians.  Many are complacent.   I respect people that are ambitious, generally, if they seem to have a good foundation.  Chasing money and power as 'success' blindly can and does end badly many times.  You mention a common denominator of some that give up being Christians, yet I'm not seeing that.  There are many quiet Christians that are very successful, powerful, and humble.  By their nature, you many never hear of them.  

Makes me think...what is it about you Christian people that makes you poor, weak, and useless in the world? I didnt accept Jesus to become weak and pathetic like the lot of you. I came to win. I know what I want, and it seems like I will never have it...I am a useless loser just like the rest of you, apparently.  Again, how does accepting Jesus lead to someone becoming weak and pathetic?  To me, there's a logic gap there.  One thing isn't a cause for the other.  

But if I reject Jesus, sure, I can have the world, but I will become reprobate, and burn in hell. That defeats the purpose.   Reversing the logic and rejecting Jesus doesn't logically mean you'd be successful.   

Either way, I lose. I dont care about the gospel. I dont care about the word. I dont care about you. I just want to win, and I guess I'm the idiot for trying to find a Christian success story on a website full of derelect rejects of life that have no value to this world. Yeah, I just said that. Think what you want. I'm tired of trying to find Christian success stories. All I find are losers, rejects, and idiots.

This comments here seem to describe a loop where being Christian means you will be a loser.  What happens if you step back and look at the whole situation where you separate Christian beliefs and being a loser/winner.  Examine the social dynamics side separately, how people influence and affect you.  What needs to change so you win?  How do you achieve that?  Depending on your life and experiences, your definition of winning will likely change.  Plan accordingly.  One every year I look at my life, how I spend my time in every way, and consider the value of it all.  Am I working too many hours, not spending enough time with my family, wanting more social time, etc.  Sometimes that leads to minor adjustments, other times I've quit jobs and/or moved across the country.  My Christian beliefs are a foundation to consider, value, and use in making these decisions.  

 

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2 hours ago, bryan said:

Your comments about your beliefs, history, how your feel, and the people around you make sense in some ways to me.  I came to this forum in the hope of finding rational discussion, so here are a few questions and comments.   See what you think.

 

 What defines someone as a loser?  I know many people with expensive toys, high paying jobs, yet are very stressed and generally unhappy.  Are some generally happy but poor a loser, or does being a loser involve mostly social dynamics, i.e. how people treat them.  What defines the opposite, a winner?

 

It sounds like you're mad you haven't found what you're skilled in, mad that you feel weak and dependent on your Christian beliefs, question those beliefs, and yet believe all that will lead you to never get what you want.   How do Christian beliefs lead to being a loser, weak, and pathetic?  As a child, I was told I was in complete control of my mind and body, so if I didn't like something or wanted it to change I should figure it out and change it.  Blaming and getting mad were ways of accepting defeat.  Still, I'm not seeing connections between this and Christian beliefs.  

 

 Many are complacent.   I respect people that are ambitious, generally, if they seem to have a good foundation.  Chasing money and power as 'success' blindly can and does end badly many times.  You mention a common denominator of some that give up being Christians, yet I'm not seeing that.  There are many quiet Christians that are very successful, powerful, and humble.  By their nature, you many never hear of them.  

 

 Again, how does accepting Jesus lead to someone becoming weak and pathetic?  To me, there's a logic gap there.  One thing isn't a cause for the other.  

 

Reversing the logic and rejecting Jesus doesn't logically mean you'd be successful.   

 

This comments here seem to describe a loop where being Christian means you will be a loser.  What happens if you step back and look at the whole situation where you separate Christian beliefs and being a loser/winner.  Examine the social dynamics side separately, how people influence and affect you.  What needs to change so you win?  How do you achieve that?  Depending on your life and experiences, your definition of winning will likely change.  Plan accordingly.  One every year I look at my life, how I spend my time in every way, and consider the value of it all.  Am I working too many hours, not spending enough time with my family, wanting more social time, etc.  Sometimes that leads to minor adjustments, other times I've quit jobs and/or moved across the country.  My Christian beliefs are a foundation to consider, value, and use in making these decisions.  

 

I'm glad I'm making sense. My intent is not to be a general troll. There is a deep sense of substance and intention behind what I share. You can have a rational conversation with me. I can see many different viewpoints.

A loser...to me, is someone ... who isn't in a relationship, who doesn't have much money to their name, who cant hold down a regular job, who doesnt have many friends, who is always angry and defensive, who is ignored and overlooked by everyone, who is dependent on others to sustain a living...in other words, me for most of my life. Yes, I have always been a loser at life, and have had a strong desire to not be a loser anymore.

 

A winner is somone who has good relationships, who has skillsets developed, who has a way with life, who makes a good amount of money, who has connections, who has things work out for the better...a winner is the person I've always wanted to be, but God always kept away from me, being the sadist I believe God is, EVEN AFTER READING SCRIPTURE.

 

I guess for me, being a loser or a winner is all rooted in social dynamics...relationships, social status, social skillset, reputation, respect, influence...if you have it and can develop it, you are a winner. If you cant, and you screw up regularly, you are a loser. I had been a loser most of my life, and it was disgusting, and I always blamed God/Jesus because of it. I mean, people who were popular and successful mostly werent Christians, so God had something to do with someone being lame and unwanted.

 

I have not yet found what I am skilled in. I prayed to God for YEARS for him to reveal my expertise. He never answered that prayer. I strongly believe Jesus was weak, and that I am weak because I believe in Jesus. I believe, because I have accepted Jesus, that the world will never treat me with respect, and because of that, I hate Jesus for who he is...because of Jesus, I am dirty just like he was, and I am ashamed. Yet, Jesus traps people by saying in scripture "Those who are ashamed of me here, I shall tell my father I am ashamed of them in heaven". It's like Jesus wants people to be losers; which is why I spent years cursing the name of Jesus. To me, he's a jerk who ruins people's lives.

 

I've been trying to "figure it out" for years, but NOTHING...NOT ONE THING worked. I am still running in circles, and I feel like I'm in hell, repeating history over and over again, and I feel Jesus is toying with me and having fun with my life. I didnt do anything to deserve being treated like a joke by my heavenly father.

 

Yes, I STRONGLY, FIERCELY, CONVINCINGLY BELIEVE that I am a loser because I am wholly dependent and weakened by my Christian beliefs. The way I understand it, God calls the shots, and at birth, God decided who would be a winner, and who would be a loser, and God expects you to shut up, deal with it, and give him his tithe. That's how I see God. That's how I understand him. The point is...

 

...No matter how hard I work, the LORD handicapped my efforts from the beginning, and even if I gave it 150%, nothing works because God cursed me to fail, and blessed the others to win, hence, my question FOR OVER EIGHT YEARS: Why do some Christians have more, and why do most Christians have less, and not one Christian can answer that question on principle. Instead, I get MORE complacent losers flocking to me. I hope you're beginning to see the picture.

 

You said something earlier:

 There are many quiet Christians that are very successful, powerful, and humble.  By their nature, you many never hear of them.  

Those are the Christians I am looking for. I'm not looking for the weak ones who gave up on life and tell me to accept a less-than-average lifestyle to please Jesus.  I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THOSE CLOWNS, AND I LET THEM KNOW I DONT WANT TO HEAR THEM. But those quiet Christians who've built success, whom I've never heard of...I want to be that person. I WILL KILL TO BE THAT PERSON. You have no idea how much I DREAM of becoming that silent Christian super success. THEY EXIST. I SEEK THEM. I WANT TO LEARN FROM THEM AND DUPLICATE THEM. I dont have time for Christians who do not have what I want.

 

Perhaps there IS a logic gap. Maybe it's the fact 90% of Christians I know arent people I want to be around. SCRIPTURE has a different story about who the LORD is, and I have read scripture. Again, the question is: Why do some born-again Christians have more, and why do most have less, and what can a person do to become the born-again Christian who has more? THIS IS THE ONLY THING I CARE ABOUT.

 

Indeed, reversing the logic does not equal success. Jesus died for all people, unsuccessful or successful, rich or poor, black or white...doesn't matter. ALL who accept him are set free, but that does NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION as to why some Christians have more, and most Christians have less. NOT ONE CHRISTIAN, NOT ONE PASTOR...can answer that one.

 

Yes, I strongly believe being a Christian = Being a loser. I will not apologize for that statement. I believe it to be true. For me to step back and seperate Christianity from Winning/Losing, I need to find someone WHO UNDERSTANDS WHERE I AM COMING FROM. 95% of online Christian users live in la-la-land wasting their time pursuing irrelevant things. I am not one of those people. I mean, if you are, by all means, go ahead and do whatever pleases you. I am not your dictator, but I will not waste time dealing with you.

 

I've made a lot of decisions, and cut out a lot of bad things to get closer to Jesus. All it did was tick me off and make me poorer, and angrier at Jesus.

 

THE ONLY QUESTION I CARE ABOUT, IS, ONCE MORE: Why do some Christians have more, and most Christians have less? It's like an exceptionally cruel Pareto Principle (20/80) rule in action, and I'm on the negative end of it. I will NOT STOP until I find an answer to this question.

 

How do I escape the losers, and live with the winners? 

That is my only objective with Christianity.

 

 

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