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kenny2212

Post trib?

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Posted (edited)

People say the rapture's got to be post-trib because Jesus said "immediately after the tribulation of those days" in Matt. 24:29. But he also said "in the world you shall have tribulation" in John 16:33. The disciples surely didn't face the final 7 years? Did they? We're still here. People also say Matthew 24:30 is Jesus' second coming. You'll agree with me that Matt. 24:29 is parallel to Rev. 6:12-14. Rev. 6:12-14 is the 6th seal. If Matt. 24:30 is the 2nd coming (7th trumpet), that means one has to cram the 7th seal and 6 trumpet judgements between verses 30 and 31, good? Not good. Not that I agree that the rapture occurs at the 7th trumpet. I'm just assuming it happens.

Edited by kenny2212

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The "rapture" will occur just before the Lord does His work on an unbelieving world which will last for 2550 days .... He will be involved personally even thought the world will not see Him in the process

He will then appear to those left on the earth at the end of the tribulation and separate them .... those of Israel, and the balance of the nations

This truth has been lost by "professing" Christianity today and has been perverted by most .... not a good thing

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2 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

People say the rapture's got to be post-trib because Jesus said "immediately after the tribulation of those days" in Matt. 24:29. But he also said "in the world you shall have tribulation" in John 16:33. The disciples surely didn't face the final 7 years? Did they? We're still here. People also say Matthew 24:30 is Jesus' second coming. You'll agree with me that Matt. 24:29 is parallel to Rev. 6:12-14. Rev. 6:12-14 is the 6th seal. If Matt. 24:30 is the 2nd coming (7th trumpet), that means one has to cram the 7th seal and 6 trumpet judgements between verses 30 and 31, good? Not good.

 

The evidence is found in Revelation 16, and all passages that speak in regards to the catching away/ gathering speak of His coming.  This is because the two are the same event.

 

Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

 

Just prior to Armageddon.  Perhaps the real issue is trying to understand the timing of God from a mortal perspective.  I would suggest examining the three woes, and reconciling the fact that following the second woe, the third woe comes quickly.

 

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

 

So scripture tells you that there is not a large gap of time between the two.  Not understanding time from God's perspective does not make it any less true.

God bless

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2 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

People say the rapture's got to be post-trib because Jesus said "immediately after the tribulation of those days" in Matt. 24:29. But he also said "in the world you shall have tribulation" in John 16:33. The disciples surely didn't face the final 7 years? Did they? We're still here. People also say Matthew 24:30 is Jesus' second coming. You'll agree with me that Matt. 24:29 is parallel to Rev. 6:12-14. Rev. 6:12-14 is the 6th seal. If Matt. 24:30 is the 2nd coming (7th trumpet), that means one has to cram the 7th seal and 6 trumpet judgements between verses 30 and 31, good? Not good.

The Great Tribulation is the 2000 year period between the Death of Jesus and the Rapture. The Greatest time of Troubles will be a 7 year period where Israel is the main player because the Church is Raptured.  Jesus' Second Coming and the Rapture are two separate events. The Church returns with Jesus IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days.  And if you will look in Vs. 31 it tells you the Angels gathers them from the four corners of Heaven !! 

Too many people just don't understand how to read the Bible. Verse 29 is referencing the Joel prophecy about the Sun turning black and the moon turning red, that is the Day of the Lords most well known Event in the Old Testament Prophecy. But the Day of the Lord stars with the Sixth Seal and goes to the Seventh Vial/Bowl and lasts for 3 1/2 years. So the mention of the Sun being Dark and Moon turning blood red in Matthew 29 only refers to Day of the Lord, the FULL 3 1/2 years.......Its then transitions to Jesus' Second Coming. If you can't figure out the Day of the Lord is a 3 1/2 year period you are going to be lost. 

So Matthew 24:29 is not purely parallel with Rev. 6:12-14 but it is parallel with all the Seals, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. So the Mention of the Sun being Dark and Moon being Red is the mention of a 3 1/2 year period of Gods Wrath.  Its very clear of you research it this Wrath of God or Day of the Lord is a 3 1/2 year period of time. 

 

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7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Great Tribulation is the 2000 year period between the Death of Jesus and the Rapture.

No, the great tribulation is the last 3.5 years of the 70th week, and it begins at the abomination of desolation.

Matt 24:15-21 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Greatest time of Troubles will be a 7 year period where Israel is the main player because the Church is Raptured.

Jacob's trouble (7 years) and the great tribulation (the last 3.5 years) begin on two different timelines.

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

And if you will look in Vs. 31 it tells you the Angels gathers them from the four corners of Heaven !!

In Matt 24:31 Jesus gathers the tribulation saints from the four corners of Heaven, not the church saints. This gathering also is not a harpazo.

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Too many people just don't understand how to read the Bible.

:rolleyes:

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If you can't figure out the Day of the Lord is a 3 1/2 year period you are going to be lost.

The Day of the Lord actually begins with rapture when Virgo gives birth to Jupiter..

Isa 13:6-8 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. 7Because of this, all hands will go limp, every heart will melt with fear. 8Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.
 
Isa 26:17-21 As a pregnant woman about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, Lord. 18We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
 
Jer 30:6-7 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? 7How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.
 
1 Thess 5:1-3 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the great tribulation is the last 3.5 years of the 70th week, and it begins at the abomination of desolation.

Matt 24:15-21 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

You of course are falling into the same trap that everyone else does. You are following words instead of looking at the facts. The Greatest Troubles of ALL TIME doesn't mean that the other 2000 years after Jesus' death wasn't Tribulation also, as a matter of fact we can see that by reading scriptures.

John 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

Matthew 24:9  “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you

Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire occurred intermittently over a period of over two centuries until the year 313 AD when the Roman Emperors Constantine the Great and Licinius jointly promulgated the Edict of Milan which legalised the Christian religion. 

Over 670 million non-Muslims massacred since the birth of Islam: Of the total numbers we have updated over 80 million Christians killed by Muslims in 500 years in the Balkan states, Hungary, Ukraine, Russia. They have also killed 120 million Africans of which most of North Africa was Christian and 59 million Christians in Asia Minor. It is been stated that 90,000 Christians were murdered by Muslim last year alone. 

We live in continual TRIBULATION, We might be blessed, but many many have payed with their lives. We also have the Tribulations and Trials Satan brings to each one of us, though that doesn't compare, we still go through it. 

Now we do have a 7 Year Period and a 2000 year Period....Which is Greater? It depends on what is being spoken about. 2000 Years is GREATER than 7 Years and the Seven Year Period will have the GREATEST TROUBLES ever seen. 

Those Raptured who are shown in Rev. 7 came out of the Great Tribulation OF COURSE !! The 2000 years of Tribulation which was much LARGER than the 7 Year Period that Jesus was now showing John in Visions. Those people are the Raptured Church who come back with Jesus in Rev. 19 IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation.

You are mixing the two up and seemingly saying we are not now in Tribulation, even though Jesus said we are in Tribulation now.... BUT.... He also said that there is a coming Trouble that will be the Greatest of all time, and it will be a 7 Year Period of time.

And the Wrath of God is 3.5 Years....Jacobs Trouble is a 7 Year Period.

Edited by Revelation Man
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Jacob's trouble (7 years) and the great tribulation (the last 3.5 years) begin on two different timelines.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Jacobs Troubles and the Great Tribulation period is 7 Years. Israel will be forced into a "Peace/Security" Deal. Its still Troubles, Its like Obama's Administration x 100 except it will be a European Union King/Leader. They will be treated just like Obama treated them but much worse. The Day of the Lord is the 3.5 year period of Gods Wrath. Israel goes through the full 7 year period. God protects the ones that Flee to the Wilderness for 1260 Days.

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

In Matt 24:31 Jesus gathers the tribulation saints from the four corners of Heaven, not the church saints. This gathering also is not a harpazo.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Angel Gathers the Church who is in Heaven just like Rev. 19 says........the verse says From Heaven. The Church comes back with Jesus. The Martyrs under the Alter are told EXPLICITLY they must wait until their Brothers are killed also, which means they must wait into the Anti-Christs reign of terror is over. They are the BEHEADED and in Rev. 20:4 they are Judged and found Righteous, then they reign on earth with Jesus for 1000 years. The Church has already married the Lamb and RETURNED to fight the Anti-Christ in Rev. 19.

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The Day of the Lord actually begins with rapture when Virgo gives birth to Jupiter..

 

I will let you dabble in Astrology. This is a from the Sumerian Babylonian Religion of Astrology. 

Edited by Revelation Man

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3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I will let you dabble in Astrology. This is from the Sumerian Babylonian Religion of Astrology. 

Rev 12:1-5 is astronomy, not astrology. It's in the word of God and only occurs once.

Psa 19:1-5 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. 3They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. 4Yet their voiceb goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun. 5It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course.

Matt 21:24-27 Jesus replied, “I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 25John’s baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?” They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ 26But if we say, ‘Of human origin’—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet.” 27So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.” Then he said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.

Rev 12:1-2 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You of course are falling into the same trap that everyone else does.

What trap. Matt 24 is clear. The Great Trib begins at the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 70th week.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Jacobs Troubles and the Great Tribulation period is 7 Years.

If the Great Trib is 7 years then why does it begin in the middle of the 70th week.

 

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17 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 12:1-5 is astronomy, not astrology. It's in the word of God and only occurs once.

 

You might want to study it. It is Astrology, rest assured. Virgo, Venus and Jupiter. The Pentagram comes from Babylonian Astrology. You think you can use Virgo, Jupiter and Venus of the Zodiac and call it Astronomy? LOL, Get out. Its not in the word of God as I have stated before. Those are past events setting up the Prophecy of Israel fleeing to the Wilderness. 

The Heavens declaring Gods handi-work has nothing to do with you dabbling in Astrology. Was the Babylonians looking at Gods HANDI-WORK? NO, they were worshiping Satan, that is where the Pentagram comes from.

The Greatest time of Trouble begins even before the Abomination. You act like 2000 years is not GREATER than 7 years. Lets not be facetious. Those Christians in Rev. 7 came out of the Great Tribulation, which is a 2000 year period of much troubles.

25 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

If the Great Trib is 7 years then why does it begin in the middle of the 70th week.

 

That is Gods Wrath, the Tribulation or JACOBS TROUBLE is the 70th Week if Daniel.

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11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It is Astrology, rest assured. Virgo, Venus and Jupiter.

And who created Virgo the constellation, Venus and Jupiter? God or Satan? :rolleyes:

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You think you can use Virgo, Jupiter and Venus of the Zodiac and call it Astronomy?

I guess it all depends on who you worship, Jesus Christ or Satan.

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Its not in the word of God as I have stated before.

Rev 12:1-5 is not in the word of God? :rolleyes:

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Those are past events setting up the Prophecy of Israel fleeing to the Wilderness.

Then why can't anyone find it on Stellarium. Rev 12:1-5 takes place in the heavens, and Stellarium is a star tracking software.

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The Heavens declaring Gods handi-work has nothing to do with you dabbling in Astrology. Was the Babylonians looking at Gods HANDI-WORK? NO, they were worshiping Satan, that is where the Pentagram comes from.

Well, it has everything to do with it.
Babylonians worship Satan, born again Christians worship Jesus Christ.
How many more generations does RM need to see? :rolleyes:

Matt 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 

1897 - First Zionist Congress
1917 - The Balfour Declaration
1947 - Israel becomes a nation
1967 - Israel recaptures Jerusalem
2017 - Rev 12:1-5 sign

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