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1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi wingnut,

I think you have misunderstood, I said that `the voice is as a trumpet speaking to me,` (John) as the scripture says.

regards, Marilyn.

 

I agree it is a voice.  I disagree with you saying there are no trumpets in heaven.  Unless that isn't what you meant?

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1 hour ago, wingnut- said:

 

I agree it is a voice.  I disagree with you saying there are no trumpets in heaven.  Unless that isn't what you meant?

Hi wingnut,

Trumpets are earthly things, corruptible,  - subject to decay, destruction.

Marilyn.

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Guest shiloh357
4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

It is quite obvious that 3 things have to happen,

`For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.` (1 Thess. 4: 16)

1. The shout, command for gathering of the Body of Christ,

2. The clearing of angelic beings, the voice of the archangel,

3. The trumpet/voice of authority of God to raise the dead.

Marilyn. 

No, you are still trying to apply meanings that are simply not given in the Scripture.  There is nothing in that passage and nowhere that says the trumpet at the rapture is the voice of God.   You are simply reading into the passage something that is not there.   It's the same inferior  method you use in handling the Bible when it comes to the millennium.   You read your own subjective meanings into passages instead of letting the Bible interpret itself.

The trumpet is not the authority of God to raise the dead.  It is going to be a literal trumpet.  I am simply going to believe the Bible and reject your mishandling of Scripture.

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Guest shiloh357
16 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi wingnut,

Trumpets are earthly things, corruptible,  - subject to decay, destruction.

Marilyn.

And God cannot have trumpets in heaven??  Seriously??  I am sorry, but that is just absurd.  That is just nonsense.

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Just now, shiloh357 said:

No, you are still trying to apply meanings that are simply not given in the Scripture.  There is nothing in that passage and nowhere that says the trumpet at the rapture is the voice of God.   You are simply reading into the passage something that is not there.   It's the same inferior  method you use in handling the Bible when it comes to the millennium.   You read your own subjective meanings into passages instead of letting the Bible interpret itself.

The trumpet is not the authority of God to raise the dead.  It is going to be a literal trumpet.  I am simply going to believe the Bible and reject your mishandling of Scripture.

Reference: Fairbairn`s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

`There can be no doubt that the sacred use of the trumpet had its reason in the loud and stirring noise it emits. This is described as a cry, Le. 25: 9 - the rendering `sound` in the English Bible is too feeble - which was to make itself heard throughout the whole land.

The references to it in Scripture not unfrequently indicate the same idea, Zep. 1: 16. Isa. 58: 1, Hos. 8: 1, etc. And for this reason the sound of the trumpet was familiarly employed as an image of the voice or word of God.

The voice of God and the voice of the trumpet on Mount Sinai were heard together - first, the trumpet-sound as the symbol, then the living reality, Ex. 19: 16 - 19. St. John also speaks of having heard the voice of the Lord as that of a trumpet, Rev. 1: 10. 4: 1, and the thrilling sound of the trumpet is once again represented as the immediate harbinger of the Son of Man when He comes in power and glory, to utter the almighty word, which shall quicken the dead to life....` 1 Cor. 15: 52,  1 Thess. 4: 16.

It is clear, therefore, that the blowing of the trumpet was, in certain connections, used as a symbol of the mighty voice of God, which, when uttered, none may venture to disregard.`

 

So Shiloh,

Would you also call the comments of the author of the Fairbairn`s Bible Encyclopedia, Patrick Fairbairn, as an` inferior method`` for handling the Bible? For he states -the blowing of the trumpet was, in certain connections, used as a symbol of the mighty voice of God

Marilyn.

 

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1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Reference: Fairbairn`s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

`There can be no doubt that the sacred use of the trumpet had its reason in the loud and stirring noise it emits. This is described as a cry, Le. 25: 9 - the rendering `sound` in the English Bible is too feeble - which was to make itself heard throughout the whole land.

The references to it in Scripture not unfrequently indicate the same idea, Zep. 1: 16. Isa. 58: 1, Hos. 8: 1, etc. And for this reason the sound of the trumpet was familiarly employed as an image of the voice or word of God.

The voice of God and the voice of the trumpet on Mount Sinai were heard together - first, the trumpet-sound as the symbol, then the living reality, Ex. 19: 16 - 19. St. John also speaks of having heard the voice of the Lord as that of a trumpet, Rev. 1: 10. 4: 1, and the thrilling sound of the trumpet is once again represented as the immediate harbinger of the Son of Man when He comes in power and glory, to utter the almighty word, which shall quicken the dead to life....` 1 Cor. 15: 52,  1 Thess. 4: 16.

It is clear, therefore, that the blowing of the trumpet was, in certain connections, used as a symbol of the mighty voice of God, which, when uttered, none may venture to disregard.`

 

So Shiloh,

Would you also call the comments of the author of the Fairbairn`s Bible Encyclopedia, Patrick Fairbairn, as an` inferior method`` for handling the Bible? For he states -the blowing of the trumpet was, in certain connections, used as a symbol of the mighty voice of God

Marilyn.

 

No, what I call an inferior method is grabbing a metaphor in one part of the Bible that uses a trumpet to describe the sound of God's voice and then taking that metaphor applying it will nilly to other parts of the Bible where a literal trumpet is indicated.   Your interpretive approach is an inferior method that reads your opinions into Scripture.   You're not doing exegesis, your doing eisogesis and it's just you reading your opinions into the text.

Your problem is that you no textual indicators that anything other than a literal trumpet is being referenced in the text in question about the rapture.

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On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 6:06 AM, wingnut- said:

 

What in Revelation 7:9 says rapture to you?

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

read it please. what part of that doesn't say the children of god?

 

 

What happened in Egypt?

were the children of god destroyed? were they actually called children of god? what did God say to Moses? What was God's promise to the Children of God? what other people did God come to directly? why did God choose this people to bring prosperity too? What happened to the Israelites in the desert? was it the first time that the people behaved that way? what was the result of their choices? what was the end result of the 40 years?

so please ponder the above. the answer the following.

what was the point of Jesus Christ? who was he? what was his mission, and what did he accomplish?

answer the above and I think you will answer your own question.

I hope you take the above seriously, and open your heart to it and find how you see God's reason for Jesus.

be blessed

 

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15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi wingnut,

Trumpets are earthly things, corruptible,  - subject to decay, destruction.

Marilyn.

 

Revelation 8: 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

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12 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

read it please. what part of that doesn't say the children of god?

 

Clearly they are God's children, but that does not support your claim of rapture.  They are deceased people.

 

12 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

answer the above and I think you will answer your own question.

 

Can you answer a question?  I only asked you two, and your response is non-existent, you simply asked me a dozen questions in return that really don't relate to the topic at hand.

God bless

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9 hours ago, Davida said:

The descriptions in Revelations of the New Jerusalem - with precious gems & gold as pure as transparent glass"  - By this haphazard logic then applied in the above post  - same goes in your opinion  -  Diamonds , pearls, gold , precious Gems are mined and therefore  by your opinion they are also dismissed ? "earthly things, corruptible, - subject to decay, destruction. " 

Rev 21:21 "20the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, with each gate consisting of a single pearl. The main street of the city was pure gold, as pure as transparent glass. 22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.…

`...knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver and gold, from your aimless conduct...` (1 Peter 1: 18)

`...that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes...` (1 Peter 1: 7)

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