Post trib?

[Heb 13:8]

9 hours ago, Davida said:

The descriptions in Revelations of the New Jerusalem - with precious gems & gold as pure as transparent glass"

The New Jerusalem is not a material building, it's actually the body of Christ. Scripture describes the Holy City, New Jerusalem as the bride/the body of Christ in the following. Also take note of the symbolism in Isa 60:18, Isa 62:12 and Isa 65:19 below..

Psa 45:13-14 / Song of Solomon 1:4 All glorious is the princess within her chamber; her gown is interwoven with gold. 14 In embroidered garments she is led to the king; her virgin companions follow her— those brought to be with her.

Isa 61:10 / Job 29:14 I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of his righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Isa 62:4-5 / Isa 54:1-6 TRAVAIL / Isa 60:18 WALLS&GATES / Isa 62:12 CITY / Isa 65:19 CRYING / Hosea 2:19-20 No longer will they call you Deserted, or name your land Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah ; for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. 5 As a young man marries a young woman, so will your Builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.

John 3:27-30 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must become greater; I must become less.”

2 Cor 11:2-3 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Eph 5:25-27 / John 3:3-7 / Rom 10:9-10 / 1 Cor 6:10-11 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Rev 3:12 / Rev 2:26-29 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

Rev 19:6-10 / Matt 1:20 HOLY SPIRIT CONCEIVED Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.) 9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.” 10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

Rev 21:9-10 / Rev 19:7 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

[OneLight]

1 minute ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The New Jerusalem is not a material building, it's actually the body of Christ. Scripture describes the Holy City, New Jerusalem as the bride/the body of Christ in the following. Also take note of the symbolism in Isa 60:18, Isa 62:12 and Isa 65:19 below..

Psa 45:13-14 / Song of Solomon 1:4 All glorious is the princess within her chamber; her gown is interwoven with gold. 14 In embroidered garments she is led to the king; her virgin companions follow her— those brought to be with her.

Isa 61:10 / Job 29:14 I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of his righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Isa 62:4-5 / Isa 54:1-6 TRAVAIL / Isa 60:18 WALLS&GATES / Isa 62:12 CITY / Isa 65:19 CRYING / Hosea 2:19-20 No longer will they call you Deserted, or name your land Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah ; for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. 5 As a young man marries a young woman, so will your Builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.

John 3:27-30 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must become greater; I must become less.”

2 Cor 11:2-3 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Eph 5:25-27 / John 3:3-7 / Rom 10:9-10 / 1 Cor 6:10-11 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Rev 3:12 / Rev 2:26-29 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

Rev 19:6-10 / Matt 1:20 HOLY SPIRIT CONCEIVED Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.) 9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.” 10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

Rev 21:9-10 / Rev 19:7 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

That is very hard to accept since Revelation 21 gives us exact dimensions of the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:9-21

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”  And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.  Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall.  The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal.  Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.  The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.  The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.  The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

I believe this city is the mansion Jesus spoke of when He said in John 14:1-4

Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.  In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.  And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

 

[Heb 13:8]

31 minutes ago, OneLight said:

That is very hard to accept since Revelation 21 gives us exact dimensions of the New Jerusalem.

I believe this city is the mansion Jesus spoke of when He said in John 14:1-4

Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.  In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.  And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

I do believe there are mansions in heaven, but scripture doesn't go into much detail of what our seven years in heaven will be like.

Think of it this way. 12,000 stadia in Rev 21:16 in height extends well into space and well beyond the borders of Israel. John gave us unrealistic numbers to show us that he is in fact describing the beauty of the church.

CITY/CRYING/GATES/WALLS

Scripture also uses walls and gates as symbolism for salvation and praise, and there will no longer be weeping and crying and pain in the NJ. It also references believers as a city...

Isa 60:18 No longer will violence be heard in your land, nor ruin or destruction within your borders, but you will call your walls Salvation and your gates Praise.

Isa 62:12 They will be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD; and you will be called Sought After, the City No Longer Deserted.

Isa 65:19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.

Rev 21:4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Rev 21:15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates (praise) and its walls (salvation).

DIFFERENT NAMES FOR BELIEVERS

Scripture gives multiple names to describe believers. It's all referring to the same people, believers..

1. The bride Psa 45:13-14, Isa 61:10, Isa 62:4-5, Rev 19:6-10
2. The church Eph 5:25-27, Rev 2:26-29
3. Born again Christians John 3:3-7
4. The New Jerusalem Rev 3:12, Rev 21:2
5. The Holy City Rev 21:2, Rev 21:9-10
6. A great multitude Rev 5:9, Rev 7:9 Rev 19:1, 6
7. The armies of heaven Rev 19:14
8. The wife of the lamb Rev 21:9-10

DIMENSIONS OF THE NJ

I do believe 375 miles in width, length and height are figurative numbers to describe the body of Christ..

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Rev 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

Rev 21:16 Barnes' Notes on the Bible - And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs - As eight furlongs make a mile, the extent of the walls, therefore, must have been three hundred and seventy-five miles. Of course, this must preclude all idea of there being such a city literally in Palestine. This is clearly a figurative or symbolical representation; and the idea is, that the city was on the most magnificent scale, and with the largest proportions, and the description here is adopted merely to indicate this vastness, without any idea that it would be understood "literally."

The length, and the breadth, and the height of it are equal - According to this representation, the height of the city, not of the walls (compare Revelation 21:17), would be three hundred and seventy-five miles. Of course, this cannot be understood literally, and the very idea of a literal fulfillment of this shows the absurdity of that method of interpretation. The idea intended to be conveyed by this immense height would seem to be that it would contain countless numbers of inhabitants. It is true that such a structure has not existed, and that a city of such a height may seem to be out of all proportion; but we are to remember:

[OneLight]

28 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I do believe there are mansions in heaven, but scripture doesn't go into much detail of what our seven years in heaven will be like.

Think of it this way. 12,000 stadia in Rev 21:16 in height extends well into space and well beyond the borders of Israel. John gave us unrealistic numbers to show us that he is in fact describing the beauty of the church.

CITY/CRYING/GATES/WALLS

Scripture also uses walls and gates as symbolism for salvation and praise, and there will no longer be weeping and crying and pain in the NJ. It also references believers as a city...

Isa 60:18 No longer will violence be heard in your land, nor ruin or destruction within your borders, but you will call your walls Salvation and your gates Praise.

Isa 62:12 They will be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD; and you will be called Sought After, the City No Longer Deserted.

Isa 65:19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.

Rev 21:4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Rev 21:15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates (praise) and its walls (salvation).

DIFFERENT NAMES FOR BELIEVERS

Scripture gives multiple names to describe believers. It's all referring to the same people, believers..

1. The bride Psa 45:13-14, Isa 61:10, Isa 62:4-5, Rev 19:6-10
2. The church Eph 5:25-27, Rev 2:26-29
3. Born again Christians John 3:3-7
4. The New Jerusalem Rev 3:12, Rev 21:2
5. The Holy City Rev 21:2, Rev 21:9-10
6. A great multitude Rev 5:9, Rev 7:9 Rev 19:1, 6
7. The armies of heaven Rev 19:14
8. The wife of the lamb Rev 21:9-10

DIMENSIONS OF THE NJ

I do believe 375 miles in width, length and height are figurative numbers to describe the body of Christ..

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Rev 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

Rev 21:16 Barnes' Notes on the Bible - And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs - As eight furlongs make a mile, the extent of the walls, therefore, must have been three hundred and seventy-five miles. Of course, this must preclude all idea of there being such a city literally in Palestine. This is clearly a figurative or symbolical representation; and the idea is, that the city was on the most magnificent scale, and with the largest proportions, and the description here is adopted merely to indicate this vastness, without any idea that it would be understood "literally."

The length, and the breadth, and the height of it are equal - According to this representation, the height of the city, not of the walls (compare Revelation 21:17), would be three hundred and seventy-five miles. Of course, this cannot be understood literally, and the very idea of a literal fulfillment of this shows the absurdity of that method of interpretation. The idea intended to be conveyed by this immense height would seem to be that it would contain countless numbers of inhabitants. It is true that such a structure has not existed, and that a city of such a height may seem to be out of all proportion; but we are to remember:

In Revelation 21, the measurement in the NKJV is done in furlongs.  12000 furlongs is equal to 1500 miles.  That would be 1500 miles cubed.  Revelation 21 begins with the creation of a new heaven and a new earth.  Nothing is said about the size of the new earth, so it is probable that the new earth will be able to house the New Jerusalem.

The walls, being measured in cubits, will be 216 feet thick.  That is some building!

I am not sure if you are underlining your own statements or if you are copying it from another resource, but they are wrong as you are confusing the height, width and depth of the city as the thickness of the walls.  Please reread Revelation 21 carefully.

[OneLight]

Revelation 21

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The New Jerusalem

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

The Glory of the New Jerusalem

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Notice in verse 16 the measurements are about the city and are in furlongs.  Then notice in verse 17 they measure the walls, which is stated to be in cubits.

[Reinitin]

There is tribulation and a dark time before the great tribulation. The hearts of men grow cold, wars rumors of war, earth quakes, the four horsemen come before the great tribulation. i really do not see it as  post trib support

[Kindle]

Just now, Reinitin said:

There is tribulation and a dark time before the great tribulation. The hearts of men grow cold, wars rumors of war, earth quakes, the four horsemen come before the great tribulation. i really do not see it as  post trib support

Reinitin,I have missed you!

[Heb 13:8]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:07 PM, OneLight said:

The walls, being measured in cubits, will be 216 feet thick.  That is some building!

The NJ is not a material building, it is us (the body of Christ).

On 5/27/2017 at 8:18 PM, OneLight said:

Notice in verse 16 the measurements are about the city and are in furlongs.  Then notice in verse 17 they measure the walls, which is stated to be in cubits.

A stadion is a furlong, it's the same thing. Read the Greek.

It's 1,500 miles in length, width and height. It's only 62 miles to space, and the dimensions of Jerusalem where Jesus lands at His second coming are only 48.3 mi2. Not only would it stick out into space like a sore thumb, but it would also suffocate Jerusalem. 144 cubits thick is symbolism pointing towards the protection of His people. Wickedness will be no more.

God says we inherit the earth, not a cubed building. The dimensions are figurative, not literal.

[OneLight]

Just now, Heb 13:8 said:

The NJ is not a material building, it is us (the body of Christ).

Why would God instruct an angel to measure the dimensions if it was not a real place?  You're grabbing for straws here, my friend.

Just now, Heb 13:8 said:

It's 1,500 miles in length, width and height. It's only 62 miles to space, and the dimensions of Jerusalem where Jesus lands at His second coming are only 48.3 mi2. Not only would it stick out into space like a sore thumb, but it would also suffocate Jerusalem. 144 cubits thick is symbolism pointing towards the protection of His people. Wickedness will be no more.

God says we inherit the earth, not a cubed building. The dimensions are figurative, not literal.

You ignore the fact that there will be a New Heaven and New Earth.  You are thinking in terms of this world.

What are you talking about Jerusalem being 144 cubits think?  Where are you even getting that from?

New Jerusalem = 12000 furlongs cubic or 1500 cubic miles

The walls = 144 cubits or 216 feet thick

You really should try sticking to scripture as it is written.  Trying to fit scripture into a theology creates false theology.

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Why would God instruct an angel to measure the dimensions if it was not a real place?  You're grabbing for straws here, my friend.

Would you rather God describe the church in a different way. The book of Daniel and Revelation are king of symbolism. We are the bride, the wife of the Lamb OneLight..

Rev 21:9-10 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 

Mat 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
13This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

It's 1,500 miles in length, width and height. It's only 62 miles to space, and the dimensions of Jerusalem where Jesus lands at His second coming are only 48.3 mi2. Not only would it stick out into space like a sore thumb, but it would also suffocate Jerusalem.

Read again.