Eddie the Jehovah's Witness reacts with fury to John 8:58

[Limey_Bob]

 

Robert xxxxxxx

Flat xxx xxxx House

xxxxxx Street

Plymouth xxx xxxx 

13th May 2017

thebagge2@yahoo.co.uk

 

Dear Eddie,

 

Thank you for the gift of the silver NWT Bible, it would be great if you would kindly explain one problem which I, ,a Trinitarian, have with it, namely John 8:58:

 

“Jesus said to them, most truly, I say unto you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”  (John 8:58, NWT, 2013 ed).

 

 

The New World Translation (NWT) of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, is the only Bible which mistranslates the Greek: "ego eimi," (this is the first person singular present tense of the verb "to be"), of John 8:58, as: "I have been?" All other versions of the Bible translate it correctly as "I am," and even the New World Translation itself, translates "ego eimi," consistently and accurately as "I am," elsewhere throughout the New Testament, i.e. at John 8:24, 9:5 and 9:9; which predate and postdate this verse! Why "ego eimi," means "I am" at every occurrence bar one is a puzzle to me, especially when the Watchtower Society has no Greek or Hebrew scholars which they can name. The NWT isn't translated by educated and reliable scholars with degrees, but by amateurs who possess no genuine knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. However, this problem is greatly compounded for the Watchtower Society, when one considers the differing marginal notes of four claimed Greek tenses, which have been used to explain the mistranslation of "ego eimi," as "I am."

 

• The 1950 NWT edition of the Greek Scriptures, on page 312, explains the Greek: "ego eimi," here as a perfect indefinite tense, a tense which does not exist in Greek, or even in any other language.

 

• The NWT 1960 Bible on page 3108, explains this as an aorist indefinite.

 

• In the 1969 (Purple) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear on page 467, this tense was now changed to the perfect tense, some nineteen years later and after millions of Bible printings which contain the earlier nonexistent tense!

 

• Then in 1985, the (Blue) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear on page 451, changes this to the perfect indicative. This is the fourth claimed tense!

 

Eddie, I enclose scans of these books. If you are unable to get hold of these books then please do visit me, and I can show you these originals.

 

Yours Sincerely

Edited May 18, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Limey_Bob]

Eddie's letter was extremely rude, he asked me to return the silver bible, which I had spent hours marking and I'd bought him and his associate a starbucks drink in exchange for the bible.

 

My reply, (edited) is as follows:

 

Dear Edward,

 

I was shocked to read your e-mail! I ask you one single question about John 8:58, not fifty questions, just one, but rather than answer my question, for which I, as an unbeliever in your faith, and I told you that several times when i met you, I said that do not attend any fellowship and am completely disillusioned with all of them, am I entitled to ask you a question about the Greek text of John 8:58. But Eddie, you then react as any member of a strange cult would do, with anger as rather than attempt to answer my question, you instead give up and run away. Please sir, might I request that you attempt to answer my perfectly honest question as to why John 8:58 reads differently in your Bible. This is an honest question. Do you see what a terrible example you are setting, as if your religion really is the truth as you stated several times, then people in the truth don't run away from a single honest question on John 8:58; but people with something to hide do run away from honest questions and hide.

 

I am sorry that you have been hurt and offended, but it is a fact that John 8:58 is a deliberate mistranslation, your religious leaders (starting with Fred Franz in 1950 NWT Greek Scriptures) have used three invented Greek tenses in order to explain that verse away. So if after 60 years as a Jehovah's Witness if you cannot handle that, then possibly you should consider completely giving up your cart work, as it is a fact that this discrepancy exists, and if I don't point that out then others will. It is always best to face facts rather than to get angry and to run away from facts, this is one reason why I no longer attend local churches, as I have found that the leaders in the baptist and Pentecostal churches which I had formally attended did not care a jot for truth, did not care about discrepancies in their own teachings and like you, they just became extremely angry with me when I confronted them with serious discrepancies in their own church doctrines, which were being opening denied by other leaders within their own fellowships.  To quote one of your past leaders (Judge Rutherford): "Religion is a snare and a racket."

 

Sir, without wishing to apply 1st John 4:1-3 to anyone in particular or to any group, as none of us (including myself) are perfect, please do notice that this passages commands me to test and to check and see if what people say about Christ truly is in harmony with the scriptures. I have not deceived you sir, I am not a JW, I told you that I am a Trinitarian as soon as I met you, neither do I attend any fellowship (I gave up in 2010), but I am obedient in testing and checking what I have been taught.

 

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.    (1st John 4:1-3).

 

Yours Sincerely

Robert XXXXXX

[Limey_Bob]

18 hours ago, Yowm said:

Robert,

Our Kingdom Hall picked up a special pair of glasses used by that 'other group', so now we can decipher the true meaning of the Greek and so be prepared for our best and final update on John 8:58.

...Edward.

Ha ha ha, it looks like I need another pair of glasses.