notsolostsoul Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2017 Why would God anoint, make suffer, bring to power and then destroy him? David a man after God's own heart. God knowing all and controlling all, surely knew David would be all the things he turned out to be. So does God set people up to fail? Being after God's own heart, will it still lead to torment?Meaning even after being forgiven will we still suffer the consequences of our actions/sins?(BEMA) Did Jesus' death remove us from suffering at the end? Is repenting pointless if we still have to pay for our sins at the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,196 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,494 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 minute ago, notsolostsoul said: Why would God anoint, make suffer, bring to power and then destroy him? David a man after God's own heart. God knowing all and controlling all, surely knew David would be all the things he turned out to be. So does God set people up to fail? Being after God's own heart, will it still lead to torment?Meaning even after being forgiven will we still suffer the consequences of our actions/sins?(BEMA) Did Jesus' death remove us from suffering at the end? Is repenting pointless if we still have to pay for our sins at the end? Hi notsolostsoul, You haven`t given specific scriptures to explain yourself. What are you referring to here - `Why would God anoint, make suffer, bring to power and then destroy him?` Those details would help us all discuss better. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marilyn C said: Hi notsolostsoul, You haven`t given specific scriptures to explain yourself. What are you referring to here - `Why would God anoint, make suffer, bring to power and then destroy him?` Those details would help us all discuss better. regards, Marilyn. I was speaking on David's Story as a whole. We know God chose him to be King. Had Saul hunt him, he suffered in caves and on the run, He became King, and then ended up running to hide all over again and still had to deal with the destruction of his family life. Reading the entire story, I am asking Why would God do this again (story of Job) to a person he says is a man after his own heart. If God know us more than we know ourselves, then wouldn't he know David would fail where he did? Set up for failure. 2 Samuel 12 7-13 7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’ 11 “This is what the LORD says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.’” 13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. And then there was all the harm and death that plagued his family. Edited May 20, 2017 by notsolostsoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: If God know us more than we know ourselves, then wouldn't he know David would fail where he did? Hello notsolostsoul, David made an awful choice, he made sure that another man died so that he could take his wife for himself. David made that choice, and with God there are consequences for the choices we make. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Hello notsolostsoul, David made an awful choice, he made sure that another man died so that he could take his wife for himself. David made that choice, and with God there are consequences for the choices we make. God bless I get it was David's choice, that I do not refute. It just seems to be a pattern with God. Where he sets up the circumstances and then punishes people for being human. Ex: Adam and Eve "Why place the fruit there? Temptation was there before the knowledge of sin. Why else would Eve have been tempted? Job was considered a good man but his most looked at sin was him questioning God. Yet he only questioned after being afflicted with so much. David Yes he sinned like all humans, but God still chose him to be great and good. Why not protect him from the temptation rather than waiting to after, and then be so ready to hand out punishment. Then to top it off others have to suffer the consequences of their sin. Edited May 20, 2017 by notsolostsoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, notsolostsoul said: Is repenting pointless if we still have to pay for our sins at the end? 6 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: Then to top it off others have to suffer the consequences of their sin. There are some tried , tested, proven lessons in the WORTHY LIBRARY: below are some excerpts from this page: http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/apostolic-testimony-ab-simpson/ "Trial develops and brings to perfection the fruits of the Spirit, deepening the soil and cultivating the garden of the great Husbandman and bringing forth the sweetness and the strength of His grace. And trial brings to us the power of God and presents to the world the amazing spectacle of a soul elevated above all surrounding circumstances and conditions, in the hardest places, and yet able to say, “Sorrowful but always rejoicing, poor yet making many rich, having nothing and yet possessing all things.” " "III. Paul Gloried in a Life of Suffering, Toil and Danger in the Service of His Master The preaching of the Gospel brings him no reward, for this is simply his duty, but the preaching of the Gospel without charge and the encountering of the trials and sacrifices it brings is one of the ways in which he is winning his crown. This act on his part was entirely voluntary and God accepted it, and accepts it still from some of His servants, and makes up to them in other ways Himself. Paul gloried in this not only because it was an opportunity of sacrificing something for his Master, but also because it added a new force to his ministry, and met the reproaches of his enemies that he was preaching for personal aggrandizement or gain. Every missionary in China knows how hard it is to persuade the people that we are influenced by purely benevolent motives in seeking their salvation. They are themselves so thoroughly selfish that they cannot understand anybody giving something for nothing, and when they really discover that the object of the missionaries is purely disinterested the impression is most profound, and is one of the most powerful assets of the missionaries in winning their confidence. There is nothing more important in our Christian work than that we should be free from all men, and that the spirit of self-sacrifice and independence should inspire every servant of the Lord Jesus. We have no business to be any man’s echo or hired preacher. Our authority comes to us directly from the High Court of Heaven, and the gifts of God’s people lay us under no human obligations, but are simply their own duty to Him whose representatives and ministers we are." Chapter 1 – Victorious Suffering Chapter 2 – The Dependableness of God Chapter 3 – Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 minute ago, notsolostsoul said: Adam and Eve "Why place the fruit there? Temptation was there before the knowledge of sin. Why else would Eve have been tempted? The temptation was there from the beginning, but Adam did not eat of it immediately. Eve was deceived, but Adam disobeyed. If they had not eaten of the fruit, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 4 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: Job was considered a good man but his most looked at sin was him questioning God. Yet he only questioned after being afflicted with so much. Questioning God wasn't a sin, Job was merely harshly chastised for doing so, and at the end God restored Job with much more than he lost. 6 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: David Yes he sinned like all humans, but God still chose him to be great and good. David wasn't just anybody, God placed him as the king of Israel and with that position much was expected. He failed miserably when he allowed lust to consume him. Thou shalt not covet is one of the ten commandments, and as king of Israel breaking commandments was simply not allowed. What he did in that instance was neither great or good. Just think about how many commandments he broke with this single act. 9 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: Why not protect them from temptation rather than waiting to after, and then be reasy to hand out punishment. Because God did not want robots, if that were the case He would have simply created robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, wingnut- said: The temptation was there from the beginning, but Adam did not eat of it immediately. Eve was deceived, but Adam disobeyed. If they had not eaten of the fruit, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Questioning God wasn't a sin, Job was merely harshly chastised for doing so, and at the end God restored Job with much more than he lost. David wasn't just anybody, God placed him as the king of Israel and with that position much was expected. He failed miserably when he allowed lust to consume him. Thou shalt not covet is one of the ten commandments, and as king of Israel breaking commandments was simply not allowed. What he did in that instance was neither great or good. Just think about how many commandments he broke with this single act. Because God did not want robots, if that were the case He would have simply created robots. My point is God allowed all of it. He could have stepped in and corrected them before the deeds were done. Why wait until after and then, punish or chastise? He saw it playing out, he knew the sin or weakness that was within. He knew it all. Why let it play out? I get the whole tough love thing. I get that some lessons are learned better through some suffering. I've been there. Don't really care for it. I don't get how the Ultimate Parent (God), knowing his children, just sits back and lets one child rape another or one child kill another and then wants to punish, chastise or hold accountable the child for something he (God) already knew was going to happen. Thus the set up. If a human parent knew their child was going to kill another child and did nothing but let it happen, what would we say about that parent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2017 6 hours ago, notsolostsoul said: My point is God allowed all of it. He could have stepped in and corrected them before the deeds were done. Why wait until after and then, punish or chastise? He saw it playing out, he knew the sin or weakness that was within. He knew it all. Why let it play out? I get the whole tough love thing. I get that some lessons are learned better through some suffering. I've been there. Don't really care for it. I don't get how the Ultimate Parent (God), knowing his children, just sits back and lets one child rape another or one child kill another and then wants to punish, chastise or hold accountable the child for something he (God) already knew was going to happen. Thus the set up. If a human parent knew their child was going to kill another child and did nothing but let it happen, what would we say about that parent? Here is the only question that matters. Did He have to send His Son to die for everyone else's sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,810 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,793 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Here is the only question that matters. Did He have to send His Son to die for everyone else's sin? Yes, "Everyone else" - and that includes the whole world - is condemned and dead already. We cannot make atonement for our own sins. Yes, God "had to" send his Son to die for everyone else's sin. God is the only one who can decide to save his creation in the first place. First, we belong to him - he created us and the universe. We are his to mold as he sees fit and to do with as he sees fit. Second, God is the only one who CAN save. He is the only one holy, righteous, and pure who CAN cover sin and free his people. Third, Jesus Christ - who IS God and who is the Son of God at the same time - was the only holy, righteous, and pure ransom TO be utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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