The Elect

[wingnut-]

19 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"There is no such term in scripture as tribulation saints, that is a man made doctrine that adds something to the book of Revelation which is not there, or anywhere else for that matter"

 

Revelation 3:10

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Sorry, neither the word tribulation or saint appears in that verse. 

 

4 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Yes .... they both do

Your post - tribulation theology is a gimmick

 

 

 

Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 

 

Neither word appears in that verse, you really shouldn't bear false witness.  You should also keep this verse in mind.

 

Revelation 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

 

I'm afraid the gimmick is in your theory, for example, a 7 year hour day.  And let's not forget that according to you first means third, or fourth, or whatever number it is you settle on.  What you are trying to sell no one should buy.

 

[wingnut-]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The responsiblity of the hermeneutic is to rightly divide

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Which God has so done in His Word 'The Elect' are of two groups OT saints and NT saints...

 

I agree that the responsibility is to rightly divide scripture, and I don't see you doing that.  There is no such separation in scripture, we are all one in Christ.

 

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

they are forever made in distiction here

John 3:29 (KJV)

[29] He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

[30] He must increase, but I must decrease.

[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

 

The only distinction John the Baptist is making in this passage is in regards to himself and the Son of God.  This conversation occurs as a result of a dispute between John's followers and other Jews and their reaction to Jesus and His message.

 

John 3:25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

 

Like most people at that time they weren't grasping who Jesus was.

 

John 3:27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’

 

John points his disciples to the truth of who Jesus is, and who he is himself.

 

John 3:29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled.

 

Here John is saying that Jesus is the bridegroom, and John is the friend of the bridegroom.  The friend hears Him, and rejoices greatly, which is why John's joy is fulfilled.

 

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

 

Jesus must increase, and John must decrease.  Jesus is above all, John is earthly.

 

John 3:32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

 

John explaining that Jesus was sent from God, and that people need to receive His testimony.

 

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

John confirming that Jesus is the Son of God, the promised Messiah.  The only distinction made here is that whoever believes in Jesus has everlasting life, and whoever rejects Him will receive wrath.  There is only one seed, one body, and one way to salvation, Jesus Christ.

God bless

[enoob57]

So you see no difference to that of the Bride and the friend of the Bridegroom... ?

[wingnut-]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

So you see no difference to that of the Bride and the friend of the Bridegroom... ?

 

No, I see John saying that he is the friend of the Bridegroom.  The voice calling out in the wilderness, and the fulfillment of that prophecy.  That's why he says "this joy of mine is fulfilled."  Because the Messiah has arrived.  There is only one body, and John the Baptist is part of it.

The only separation with Jesus is those who believe, and those who do not.

God bless

[ENOCH2010]

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

No, I see John saying that he is the friend of the Bridegroom.  The voice calling out in the wilderness, and the fulfillment of that prophecy.  That's why he says "this joy of mine is fulfilled."  Because the Messiah has arrived.  There is only one body, and John the Baptist is part of it.

The only separation with Jesus is those who believe, and those who do not.

God bless

Correct again wingnut !!!!

[OldCoot]

On 5/20/2017 at 5:22 PM, missmuffet said:

The elect are those who have a genuine belief in Jesus Christ and are saved. Born again believers who will go in the rapture of the Church. It has nothing to do with Israelites.

 

Sound scriptural hermeneutics says that the law of first mention should be used as the baseline in determining the right way to view a passage.    

Isaiah 45:4 (NKJV) For Jacob My servant's sake,
And Israel My elect,
I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me.

It would seem to be that the elect are indeed Israelites.  And who would be the ones who are of major focus during the "time of Jacob's Trouble", or Great Tribulation?  Israel.  The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their rejection of Messiah, and to push Israel to the wall and get them to call out for the Messiah to rescue them.

Hosea 5:15 - 6:2 (NKJV) I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
Chapter 6
A Call to Repentance
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

 

And Yeshua confirms this prophecy here:

Matthew 23:38-39 (NKJV) See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

This is also why Satan has tried for centuries to eliminate the Jews from the planet.  So there are no Jews left to cry out for the Messiah to return and rescue them.  Every time he has tried, God always preserves a remnant.

Edited July 5, 2017 by OldCoot

[Daniel 11:36]

I agree totally with OldCoot related to the elect of Israel in the coming tribulation period

Matthew 24 is a prime example of this drama

[fixerupper]

Oldcoot said,

Quote

 

Sound scriptural hermeneutics says that the law of first mention should be used as the baseline in determining the right way to view a passage.    

Isaiah 45:4 (NKJV) For Jacob My servant's sake,
And Israel My elect,
I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me.

It would seem to be that the elect are indeed Israelites.  And who would be the ones who are of major focus during the "time of Jacob's Trouble", or Great Tribulation?  Israel.  The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their rejection of Messiah, and to push Israel to the wall and get them to call out for the Messiah to rescue them.

 

Taking an Old Testament word and passage to define a New Testament word is bad hermeneutics.  You're completely mistaken.   What you're doing is way out of line. 

First off.  You disregard the meaning of the New Testament word, "EKLEKTOS." You can try to fabricate all you want with this word but it means Christians.  you need to look how the word is used elsewhere in the New Testament.

We know that the 'elect' always refers to Christians in the New Testament.  The word elect is the same word as 'chosen' and in every verse I looked at it always referred to Christians and a few times to angels. It's the same word as chosen in the NT. 

The word elect is 'eklektos' which means...

1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1588&t=KJV

The word elect, chosen-'eklektos,' is used in the following verses in the NT where it always refers to Christians... whether Jew or gentile! 

Here are a few examples how the word for 'elect' in Mathew 24 is used elsewhere.

1 Peter 1:2  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Titus 1:1  Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Check also...

Matthew 20:16,  John 13:18, 15:16,  Acts 15:22, 15:25,  Romans 8:33, 16:13,  1 Corinthians 1:27-28,  Ephesians 1:4,  Colossians 3:12, James 2:5,  2 Timothy 2:10,  Titus 1:1,  1 Peter 1:2, 2:9, 5:13,  Revelation 17:14.

THE WORD ELECT OR CHOSEN ALWAYS INDICATES CHRISTIANS, JESUS, OR ANGELS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

If God wanted the 'elect' of Mathew 24 to mean Jews r Israel, He would have used a different Greek word. Probably this one...

1445. Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from 
1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.

Edited July 11, 2017 by fixerupper

[n2thelight]

On 5/20/2017 at 4:53 PM, kenny2212 said:

Is the elect in Matt. 24:22 Israelites (broadly, people living in Israel) or Christians not yet raptured? Please read context before answering.

The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world,being a Christian and being saved does not make one an elect.

[n2thelight]

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

What does it mean to be "chosen"?

It means that there are certain people that God chosen in the first earth age, to do a task for Him in this flesh earth age. This is not reincarnation, for it is appointed for each of us to go through this earth age, the flesh earth age, once and only once. We read; "...It is appointed unto men once to die [in the flesh], but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27 This appointing and choosing took place before the foundation of this earth age; the second earth age [cosmos] that we now live in.

"Without blame" refers to the fact that God intercedes in certain peoples lives. Certain people have free will, while certain others are of God's election, however, God doesn't play favorites. Christ died for the sins of all who will repent; the chosen, and the free-will. All must repent for sins they commit, and love the Lord Jesus Christ, to have the hope of His glory.

"Before the foundation of the world", [cosmos in the Greek, meaning world or earth age.] The "foundation" in the Greek text, is the verb for, "the overthrow". This refers to something that happened in that first earth age, before the overthrow of Satan and his angels that followed him. When Satan fell [war against God], one third of all angelic beings [God's children] followed Satan. Then during that war, there were some who fought against Satan, and those who did, God calls "His Chosen". They took a stand, and were overcomers in that first earth age.

Have you ever wondered why you do the things that you do, at times. It's just like you have a destiny. You have always felt their is more to life, and this world, then what you have been taught. Paul addresses this in Romans 8:27. In verse twenty six it says that there are times in your life when the Holy Spirit makes intercession for you because you don't even know what to pray for.

"And he that searcheth the heart knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:27 These saints are "the set-aside ones", or "the chosen". God has a overall plan, and a purpose in that plan just for you. That purpose is to bring back His children to Him; after that overthrow, and in this earth age.

Why would God intercede in a person's life, without them even asking? When your free-will goes against God's purpose for your life, God will intercede. When Paul's "free will" was to destroy all Christians, God's will was to take this highly educated man, and use Paul as the instrument for Him. Paul used to same drive to destroy Christians, that he used later to convert people, after his conversion.

We read that the Lord said; "...For He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and Kings, and children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

"Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text. You have a choice of loving God, or loving Satan. God will not interfere with your free will choice to chose Him or Satan. However, that person that proved himself during the overthrow of Satan, were "justified", or earned the right to be called "saints", from that first earth age.

Each soul comes from God, and enters an embryo at conception. This is why Jeremiah was a chosen one. "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet of nations." Jeremiah 1:5

"Sanctified" thee, is to "set aside, or apart for a purpose". Sins still have to be repented, and the price to pay for them still had to be made. To the predestined, and fore chosen, God can make life so miserable to those out of His will that they will repent. God has a perfect will, and God is always fair.

"And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 This verse is directed to a certain people, with a condition attached. This applies to "them who are called according to His purpose." "His purpose" is called God's plan, and God's overall plan is the offering of Salvation to all. That plan includes the teaching of God's Word; to plant seeds to convict; to live our life for Him; and to go and speak where God leads you. God will use you as it pleases Him.

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29 God knew you, and what you were in that first earth age; and then [in that first earth age] God prearranged our destiny for this age. That destiny is to make us conform, or be like His Son, Jesus Christ. Though Jesus is the first fruits to overcome death, there are many that have that victory over death, through Christ's death and resurrection.

"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called: He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified." Romans 8:30 "Justified" means "judged" in the Greek text; God judged them there in that first earth age, and that is why God can and does intercede in the chosen's ones lives. The justified are the priests of the Zadok in the millennium age of Ezekiel 40, for the word Zadok comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the just".

Certain of God's children stood against Satan in the first earth age, and those that did stand, and did not follow Satan; God judged [justified], and He "chose" them then to be used in His eternal plan. Through God's perfect plan, God "predestined", and "ordained" each of them to His purpose to be used in this flesh age. Each of these will also be used in the Millennium age as priests, or called the "Zadok".

When you become a Christian, and God has given you a working over, He is trying to wake you up. God is calling out a people, His people, the "Elect-chosen, and predestined" to stand against the Antichrist [Satan] in this final generation.

"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"Romans 8:31 "What things"? The things mentioned in verses 27-30. The knowledge that God has judged the overcomers, and chose them for the purpose of fulfilling His plan; then predestined those overcomers to a service, not only in this flesh age, but the millennium age to come. They will be the priests [Zadok] then.

https://www.theseason.org/ephesians/ephesians1.htm