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kenny2212

The 144000

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kenny2212    29

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.     The same train of thought continues from verse 15 to 22. To me the elect are the 144000.

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wingnut-    6,568

Trains are good, they are also many cars connected together, so connect all the cars to this train of thought.

 

1 hour ago, kenny2212 said:

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.     The same train of thought continues from verse 15 to 22. To me the elect are the 144000.

 

Connect that car to this one...

 

Revelation 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.  15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

and connect that car to this one...

 

Revelation 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.  8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

and connect that car to this one...

 

Hosea 2:14 “Therefore, behold, I will allure her,
Will bring her into the wilderness,
And speak comfort to her.

15 I will give her her vineyards from there,
And the Valley of Achor as a door of hope;
She shall sing there,
As in the days of her youth,
As in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt.

16 “And it shall be, in that day,”
Says the Lord,
“That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’
And no longer call Me ‘My Master,’

 

and connect that car to this one...

 

Revelation 7:After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

 

and connect that car to this one...

 

 

II Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

 

So you see, the Israelites need to be taken aside and tenderly spoken to for a period of 3 1/2 years in the wilderness, the same amount of time the beast is waging war against the saints.  The saints are sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is why you don't see them requiring a seal, the angels who serve God are sealed, which is why you don't see them requiring a seal.  Unbelieving Israel in the wilderness does need a seal, because they have not yet accepted Him.  And why can't the enemy get to Israel in the wilderness?

 

the caboose....

 

Daniel 12  “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people
;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book
.

 

Now unless you think the Jews have time to stop by a bookstore and fetch a bible as they flee, or that there will be a Border's bookstore in the wilderness, how are they to know what is said in the gospel of Matthew?

God bless

 

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eileenhat    428
2 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.     The same train of thought continues from verse 15 to 22. To me the elect are the 144000.

The elect are God's children here on Earth.

The '144,000' are the resurrected saints of Rev. 20:4.

They are also the 12 stars in the 'crown' on the womens head rev. 12:1 (ie. representing the 12 tribes).

I see the '144,000' as metaphor and not as an exact number of resurrected saints.  

'144,000' is 12,000 from 12 tribes.  It is a good way to say that these people are God's children, without getting into semantics (where everyone gets bogged down in the bible.  ie. 'who' exactly are consider God's children).  People like to say it is only Jews living in Israel, for example, are what Revelations references, rather than seeing that God is going beyond that designation and saying there is more than just them (those that cll themselves Jews today, living in Israel) involved in the resurrection.  That other tribes of God's children exist, basically, and will be resurrected.  Not just Jew/Hebrew self identified descendants.

Eliot's commentary describes his take on this topic here**.

The 'elect' are God's children.

Here is what Irvin baxter says on this topic of who are the elect.

Title: "Aren’t the Elect in Matthew 24:31 the Jews?"

https://www.endtime.com/q-and-a/arent-elect-matthew-2431-jews/

**Ellicott's commentary

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/7-4.htm

Excerpt re: nature of 144,000 "...and the Apostle most emphatically laid down the principle that “he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter” (Romans 2:28-29); and the principle he applies by affirming that in Christ “there is neither Jew nor Greek” (Galatians 3:28). The Christian Church absorbs the Jewish, inherits her privileges, and adopts, with wider and nobler meaning, her phraseology. She has her Jerusalem, but it is a heavenly Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22): a Jerusalem from above (Galatians 4:26): a new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2; see Revelation 3:12); and to that Jerusalem of God the true Israel of God, the chosen generation and royal priesthood of every age, turn the eye of faith."

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Spock    2,659
On 5/21/2017 at 4:48 PM, kenny2212 said:

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.     The same train of thought continues from verse 15 to 22. To me the elect are the 144000.

Bigger than that Kenny. 

You have to consider the people who make it through the sheep and Goat judgment too. 

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kenny2212    29

To consider the sheep and goat judgement one has to consider its timing also. Are you saying the judgement comes before the great tribulation? Definitely it does not. See Revelation 20:11-15

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missmuffet    28,126
On 5/21/2017 at 4:14 PM, eileenhat said:

The elect are God's children here on Earth.

The '144,000' are the resurrected saints of Rev. 20:4.

They are also the 12 stars in the 'crown' on the womens head rev. 12:1 (ie. representing the 12 tribes).

I see the '144,000' as metaphor and not as an exact number of resurrected saints.  

'144,000' is 12,000 from 12 tribes.  It is a good way to say that these people are God's children, without getting into semantics (where everyone gets bogged down in the bible.  ie. 'who' exactly are consider God's children).  People like to say it is only Jews living in Israel, for example, are what Revelations references, rather than seeing that God is going beyond that designation and saying there is more than just them (those that cll themselves Jews today, living in Israel) involved in the resurrection.  That other tribes of God's children exist, basically, and will be resurrected.  Not just Jew/Hebrew self identified descendants.

Eliot's commentary describes his take on this topic here**.

The 'elect' are God's children.

Here is what Irvin baxter says on this topic of who are the elect.

Title: "Aren’t the Elect in Matthew 24:31 the Jews?"

https://www.endtime.com/q-and-a/arent-elect-matthew-2431-jews/

**Ellicott's commentary

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/7-4.htm

Excerpt re: nature of 144,000 "...and the Apostle most emphatically laid down the principle that “he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter” (Romans 2:28-29); and the principle he applies by affirming that in Christ “there is neither Jew nor Greek” (Galatians 3:28). The Christian Church absorbs the Jewish, inherits her privileges, and adopts, with wider and nobler meaning, her phraseology. She has her Jerusalem, but it is a heavenly Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22): a Jerusalem from above (Galatians 4:26): a new Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2; see Revelation 3:12); and to that Jerusalem of God the true Israel of God, the chosen generation and royal priesthood of every age, turn the eye of faith."

The 144,000 is the 12 Israeli tribes that are sealed. You may see this differently if you are JW.

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missmuffet    28,126
32 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

To consider the sheep and goat judgement one has to consider its timing also. Are you saying the judgement comes before the great tribulation? Definitely it does not. See Revelation 20:11-15

The Sheep and goat judgement Matthew 25:31-46. At the second coming of Jesus Christ which is the end of the seven year tribulation the believers which are the sheep and the goats which are the unbelievers will be separated. The sheep will go to the right and the goats will go to the left. The sheep who are on the right will be blessed and inherit the Kingdom of God. The goats who are on the left will be thrown into the everlasting, eternal torment and punishment of the lake of fire.

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eileenhat    428
Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2017 at 1:04 PM, missmuffet said:

The 144,000 is the 12 Israeli tribes that are sealed. You may see this differently if you are JW.

I know nothing of the JW's.

Just what God speaks.

It is a gift of the holy spirit.  Any one of you can have this gift.  It is not something that God denies his people (ie. hearing the voice of the holy spirit).  

It also takes due diligence (ie. reading the word/research).

God spoke of this time in Revelations, ie. the resurrection of the Saints, but few heard.  The message from the Churches usually stops at the rapture, though revelations speaks of no such occurrence.  Instead the entire Book is about a strong delusion that God ends with his Saints resurrection here on earth.  A simple message, but one that seems to have remain hiddened (a veil perhaps) from the masses.

The veil is lifting, that is all.

Revelations 12 comes after another chapter that references two such resurrections from the dead.

A precursor to the final event.  A progenitor.

This women seems to point directly to that lead up in chapter (11).  And we already know that the 144,000 are to be part of the resurrected saints.  Thus bringing both Jews (this 144,000) and Christians together in new bodies here on earth.  Fulfilling prophecy for such an ending.

Though I could go further and add that many Christians are also Jews by descent.  Rumors are that Jews existed in England at the forming of the first Christian Church in 37AD.  4 years post crucifixation.  Something I've posted about prior.

Jews are also a designation by God that you are his children.  So he determines who is a Jew.  An other way to see this '144,000'.  

In fact, I doubt very much that only '144,000' saints are resurrected.  I get a much higher number is at play (when I ask God).

The use of 12,000 from 12 tribes sounds like a 'foundational' number meant to convey a number of supreme unity under God (from my view).  A 'building' block of enlightened (ie. lighted by God) souls.

Edited by eileenhat

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OldCoot    79
On 5/21/2017 at 3:48 PM, kenny2212 said:

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.     The same train of thought continues from verse 15 to 22. To me the elect are the 144000.

It's possible that the 144,000 are in focus, but I think it has to do with all of Israel that survives that period.

Isaiah 45:4 (NKJV) For Jacob My servant's sake,
And Israel My elect,
I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me.

National Israel is pushed to the wall and cries out for the Messiah they rejected...

Hosea 5:15 - 6:2 (NKJV) I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
Chapter 6
A Call to Repentance
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

And Yeshua confirmed this prophecy here:

Matthew 23:38-39 (NKJV) See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

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