The 144000

[Daniel 11:36]

Exactly

[Sister]

9 hours ago, OldCoot said:

I think Jeremiah 31:15 was dealt with to some extent in Matthew 2:18

I see Ezekiel 37 as more in keeping with the restoration of Israel, initially in unbelief.  And God Himself adds clarification in verse 21-22 as bringing the nation of Israel back together from the nations.  And when we get to Ezekiel 38, the armies are coming against Israel, and later will be destroyed. 

But even then, when Messiah reigns over them in the Millennial Kingdom, it will not be perfect and things will not be as rosy as we might like them to be.  Messiah will rule with a rod of iron.  That implies that anyone getting out of line will be dealt with quickly.  Sin still is around.  Those nations that do not come to Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles will have rain denied from their land. Sin of rebellion still exists. And when Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years, he is able to create a mass revolt against God at that time.  Sin has come to full bloom yet again.  A causal reading of the kingdom parables suggests these problems.

If the Kingdom was perfect, it would not just last 1000 years, it should be forever.  We tend to confuse the millennial kingdom with the new heavens and new earth that will be created to last forever.  

OldCoot

All those generations of Israel who are chosen to come back and live in the kingdom, God will put his spirit in them.  Inside the kingdom, it will be perfect for all will follow the Lord.  Outside the Kingdom amongst the nations is another story.  Nations and people will stray after some time so that the conditions for the Gog and Magog war are prepared.

The only reason why the kingdom on earth lasts for 1000 yrs, is so that more children can be born, inside and outside the kingdom, and all of them given a chance also.

Those tribes raised and brought into the kingdom are hand picked and chosen according to the election of grace.  These together make up the whole house of Israel.  The wicked will not be chosen.

 

Romans 11:1   I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

  Romans 11:2   God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

  Romans 11:3   Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

  Romans 11:4   But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

  Romans 11:5   Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

  Romans 11:6   And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

  Romans 11:7   What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

 

 

Hebrews 3:8   Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

  Hebrews 3:9   When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

  Hebrews 3:10   Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

  Hebrews 3:11   So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

  Hebrews 3:12   Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

 

[HAZARD]

The 144,000.

An angel seals the servants of God in their foreheads.
The number of those who were sealed of the tribes of Israel: 144,000.

Rev. 7: 4, And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

The 144,000 Jews are not servants when the rapture takes place in Rev. 4:1, for all in Christ at that time will be translated (1 Th. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23). They will be saved after the rapture in the revival predicted in Acts. 2:16-21. They are to be saved and become servants of God by the time they are sealed. This is why they have God's name written on them.

 

[Sister]

On 08/07/2017 at 11:23 AM, HAZARD said:

The 144,000.

An angel seals the servants of God in their foreheads.
The number of those who were sealed of the tribes of Israel: 144,000.

Rev. 7: 4, And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

The 144,000 Jews are not servants when the rapture takes place in Rev. 4:1, for all in Christ at that time will be translated (1 Th. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23). They will be saved after the rapture in the revival predicted in Acts. 2:16-21. They are to be saved and become servants of God by the time they are sealed. This is why they have God's name written on them.

 

Hi Hazard

The 144,000 have to be servants because they follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  If we read carefully, we can see they are not last minute Christians.

 Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

  Revelation 14:2   And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

  Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

  Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

  Revelation 14:5   And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Sister

[Sister]

The 144,000 are the firstfruits of the "resurrection", not the firstfruits of the remnants.

They are special.  They are alive during the tribulation, and they are of the last generation of CHRISTIANS who follow the Lamb.

They are not defiled by "women" = religion.

"women" = the daughters of the harlot.

They follow the Word of God, not men.

THERE WILL BE A BIG SIFTING AMONGST CHRISTIANS WHEN THE TRIBULATION COMES.

There are those who have washed their robes white ALREADY,..walking in the Lord in spirit and in Truth, being fed by the Lamb (unworldly)

There are those that still have spots on their robes, because they are LUKEWARM and need to be refined in the fire (persecution) for the Lords sake, to be made clean.

and there are those who are pure evil, claiming to be Christians who have infiltrated the church to deceive, but appear holy on the outside.  These have been sent in by the prince of darkness to corrupt, and their evil works are done in secret.

All who claim to be Christians will be SIFTED.  This is why we have the tribulation.  The goats will go to the left - they will not sacrifice a single thing for the Lord, especially their lives, and the sheep will go to the right.

Out of all the sheep, there are those who come in (get it right with the Lord) at the last hour, and those who have already done that during their walk.  All get the same reward, everlasting life, but some vessels are worthy of more honour.  These are the 144,000, because they are living in the most evil of days, and through all the deception, they clung to the truth, and came out of the world before the tribulation.

The fact that it says that they are from the children of the tribes of Israel has put everybody on the wrong trail, thinking they are physical Jews only, and God did this on purpose.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Sister

[wingnut-]

On 7/7/2017 at 0:17 PM, Sister said:

Please read Ezekiel 37.  This is not "spiritualised" but this amazing event will surely happen.  This is not a resurrection, but the tribes will be  "revived" into "flesh".  They will live again to join the living "remnants of Israel", as an opportunity to know Christ and walk in his ways, and none of them will be lost.

 

Ezekiel 37:5   Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

Ezekiel 37:6   And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:10   So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

 

Hello sister,

I think there is an important distinction to be made here in what Ezekiel is talking about.  He is prophesying about future events for the nation of Israel, but this is a spiritual reference in the sense that the bones returned in 1947 when the land was returned to the Jews, but the breath will not enter them until the last days.  The key in this is the word breath, in Hebrew it is Ruach (not positive on the spelling), which literally means Spirit.  This is speaking of the same thing that Joel prophesies about in regards to the Spirit being poured out in the last days, this is the breath of life.  The living again is in regards to them being born again.

God bless 

[Sister]

Hi Wingnut

 Ezekiel 37:12   Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

  Ezekiel 37:13   And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

 

Not one person on this forum can see what I am seeing!  I just hope you will look into it a little further before dismissing.

Abraham was told about the promised land, but did not enter.  Isaac also, and Jacob, and many of their descendants who who followed God in truth.  Also those of the tribe of Levi, and the prophets only saw this land in visions but never entered.

There are two types of remnants of Israel.  The living remnants at the Coming, and all those who have passed away.  This land they longed for, which was promised to them, is not the Israel of today, but the Israel of the future.  We all know that the remnants of Israel will be brought into this land during the millinium, but God has not forgotten the dead that served him.  The prophets were shown glimpses of Christ, but they never experienced Christ, and the new covenant of mercy.  They also never experienced or knew that God was going to bring gentiles into his kingdom, and offer them salvation also.

When the kingdom of the millennium is set up, God is going to re-instate the judges and counselors as it was in the beginning, and he is going to use the same people to lead.  This kingdom will be organised.  It is not a hard thing for Christ to raise up the tribes of Israel from that great valley, which is the land of the dead.....and all those who died are not in the same place physically, but spiritually are grouped together, because they are the "reserved", or "preserved" of Israel.  Preserved to learn Christ in fullness.  Chosen for this purpose.

With Christ and the saints there, they will be taught truth, and will become a beacon to the outside gentile nations.  They will reproduce again and multiply and their purpose is to bring the gentiles to Christ.

So the dead remnants do miss out on this exciting time, and they will very much be a part of this millennia, as the rest of the living remnants.  They don't enter into the kingdom at the coming by being "resurrected into spirit ,...but enter through the flesh again, to become the glory of the Lord, and their fruits this time will be experienced.

I know it seems way to hard to visualise, the dead tribes coming back from the dead, and being "revived" in their own flesh bodies, but this is not too hard for the Lord to do, as he will keep his promise to all of them whom he has chosen.

 

Job 19:26   And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

The resurrected saints will not see God in their flesh, but in their new spiritual bodies.  Job says, that although he will die,...but in his "flesh" he will see God.  He is speaking about the millennium time.  He was obviously shown this.  He is amongst those bones who will be brought back to life during that period, with not only skin put back on his bones, and the breath of life put in him, but the spirit of God also..

It is a real event that will take place!

 

 Isaiah 1:26   And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

 

The remnants who are asleep will not miss out.  It will be spectacular, and if you can visualise this, and see the reasons why,...then it has been given to you brother.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Sister
Correction of sentence that didn't make sense.

[wingnut-]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Wingnut

 Ezekiel 37:12   Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

  Ezekiel 37:13   And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

 

Not one person on this forum can see what I am seeing!  I just hope you will look into it a little further before dismissing.

 

Hello Sister,

As always, I do consider what you have to say as for the most part we agree on things.  This however is one area where we differ, so I am curious if you see any relation at all to the passage in Ezekiel from above to this passage below.

 

Matthew 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. 54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

 

7 hours ago, Sister said:

Abraham was told about the promised land, but did not enter.  Isaac also, and Jacob, and many of their descendants who who followed God in truth.  Also those of the tribe of Levi, and the prophets only saw this land in visions but never entered.

 

True, Abraham did not enter the promised land, but what was the promised land he was looking for?  What they saw in visions was not earthly Jerusalem, what they saw was the New Jerusalem.

 

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

 

Verses 8 and 10 testify to the truth of this matter, God is not the designer and builder of earthly Jerusalem, He is the designer and builder of the New Jerusalem.  This is the promise to both Jew and Gentile, and always has been, this is what the enemy does not understand and this is why the enemy has fought so hard for earthly Jerusalem.  He may know scripture, but he does not understand it, which is why he is fighting so hard for the wrong thing.  He thinks he can win by stopping prophecy from being fulfilled, which he has tried to do throughout history, such as attempting to have Jesus killed at birth and many other things.

 

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

 

Jesus said this to the disciples.

 

John 14  “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."

 

The New Jerusalem is the promise, not the earthly Jerusalem.  The Old Testament saints are already there, as evidenced by the passage in Matthew and also confirmed by Paul.

 

Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
    and he gave gifts to men.”

9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

Paul quotes from Psalm 68 in the above passage, here is a bit more of that excerpt from the Psalm.

 

Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twice ten thousand,
    thousands upon thousands;
    the Lord is among them; Sinai is now in the sanctuary.
18 You ascended on high,
    leading a host of captives in your train
    and receiving gifts among men,
even among the rebellious, that the Lord God may dwell there.

19 Blessed be the Lord,
    who daily bears us up;
    God is our salvation. Selah
20 Our God is a God of salvation,
    and to God, the Lord, belong deliverances from death.

 

Abraham's bosom was emptied out at His resurrection, this is what He was doing for those three days, and this is what is meant by He holds the key to death and Hades.  So getting back to the original point, the word for breath being the same word that means Spirit, those referenced in Ezekiel are not believers until the breath enters them, it is speaking of spiritual birth, as in, born again.  It would appear the reason we differ on this comes down to whether or not one accepts that Abraham's bosom is empty or not.

God bless

[ENOCH2010]

Moses not Abraham struck the Rock

Edited July 10, 2017 by ENOCH2010

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Moses not Abraham struck the Rock

 

Yes, my mistake.