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The 144000


kenny2212

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11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Hello Sister,

As always, I do consider what you have to say as for the most part we agree on things.  This however is one area where we differ, so I am curious if you see any relation at all to the passage in Ezekiel from above to this passage below.

 

Matthew 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. 54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

Hi Wingut.

No, I don't see Ezekiel speaking of this.

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

True, Abraham did not enter the promised land, but what was the promised land he was looking for?  What they saw in visions was not earthly Jerusalem, what they saw was the New Jerusalem.

 

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

Abraham was looking for the Kingdom of God, that city.  Whoever seeks God and obeys his voice has automatically become a part of that city.  That city is called Zion, or Holy Jerusalem, the "heavenly kingdom".  However, God led Abraham to walk around the total boundary, where the Kingdom of God will be set up on "earth" for his descendants.  This is in God's plans.  It must come to pass, that Israel be turned around, to become a blessing of the Lord, and an example to all the nations existing outside.  Only in the millennium will this happen.

 

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Verses 8 and 10 testify to the truth of this matter, God is not the designer and builder of earthly Jerusalem, He is the designer and builder of the New Jerusalem.  This is the promise to both Jew and Gentile, and always has been, this is what the enemy does not understand and this is why the enemy has fought so hard for earthly Jerusalem.  He may know scripture, but he does not understand it, which is why he is fighting so hard for the wrong thing.  He thinks he can win by stopping prophecy from being fulfilled, which he has tried to do throughout history, such as attempting to have Jesus killed at birth and many other things.

Yes I totally agree with you.

 

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

 

Jesus said this to the disciples.

Yes I can see what you are saying and I agree, but we cannot take away the fact that the millennial kingdom on earth is where that promise will be fulfilled first.  Israel are not currently dwelling in Zion, as they have rejected their Messiah.  They still have to go through Jesus like we do today.

Matthew 11:27   All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
 

This is why the remnants, all of them from past and present need to come back, so all this can be revealed.

John 6:65   And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

All have to go through Jesus now.  There are no exceptions, and this is why the remnants of Israel, are chosen.

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Jesus said this to the disciples.

 

John 14  “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."

 

The New Jerusalem is the promise, not the earthly Jerusalem.  The Old Testament saints are already there, as evidenced by the passage in Matthew and also confirmed by Paul.

 

John 3:13   And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 

According to Jesus, there were none before him who have ascended into heaven.

11 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Abraham's bosom was emptied out at His resurrection, this is what He was doing for those three days, and this is what is meant by He holds the key to death and Hades.  So getting back to the original point, the word for breath being the same word that means Spirit, those referenced in Ezekiel are not believers until the breath enters them, it is speaking of spiritual birth, as in, born again.  It would appear the reason we differ on this comes down to whether or not one accepts that Abraham's bosom is empty or not.

 

The story of Abraham was only a "parable", to show us that once Christ comes, you're either in the kingdom or out.  Cannot change.  It's an example, and Christ used Abraham to illustrate his story.  Many Jews will miss out on taking part of the millennial kingdom....not all will be accepted.  God has "reserved" his chosen, right back from the beginning.  The wicked will not enter his rest, and those Jews who have bowed down to idols and worshiped false gods (The prince of darkness), without repenting.  They will not be accepted. 

Romans 11:4   But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

All who will be living in holy Jerusalem "on earth" during the millennium are Christ, the resurrected saints, and the remnants of Israel.  They will also have servants who are of the gentiles. 

During the millennium, the saints have "inherited the whole kingdom of God", but the remnants are only "dwelling" there.  They are placed there for protection and to be taught truth.  They are learning how to claim their inheritance by obeying the Lord.  The gentiles who come in to serve and worship the King, are visitors.  All who are a part of the kingdom, are blessed and holy, whether spirit, or flesh.  In the end, Israel will take part in the 2nd resurrection and will have their bodies changed.

 

Wingnut, can you see a kingdom on earth without the OT saints, and do you agree that they will be living there in the "flesh"?

 

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Wingnut.

I don't want to overload you, but this land here that Isaiah was prophesying about is "the kingdom of heaven" on earth that is coming, where Jerusalem will be made holy.  There are children here, and they will all be kept safe within the kingdom's boundaries.  We have been given so many glimpses of this kingdom, just like Isaiah foretold to them. 

I would like to share some scriptures, and know I am going off topic, but there doesn't seem to be much activity regarding the 144,000 at the moment in this thread.  These scriptures don't actually prove what I am saying about the remnants who are dead, who will be brought back, but mentions the living remnants.  I am just showing that this kingdom on earth during the millennium is that kingdom Israel were looking forward to.  Of course it's better to be in the resurrection, and that's what we all strive for, but God has this wonderful plan for them through mercy, and a chance to let Israel shine instead of shame.

 

Isaiah 11:4   But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

  Isaiah 11:5   And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

  Isaiah 11:6   The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

  Isaiah 11:7   And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

  Isaiah 11:8   And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

  Isaiah 11:9   They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

(the truth will cover the earth.  All will hear.  No excuses.)

  Isaiah 11:10   And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

  Isaiah 11:11   And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

  Isaiah 11:12   And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
 

 Isaiah 11:15   And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

(these are the living remnants obviously)

 


  Isaiah 11:16   And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

(Just like when Moses parted the sea, so they could get through)

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