Mike 2 Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said: So are you saying that we judge who is saved and who is going to hell? because if you were being honest that post of mine that you quoted started with: This yes!! People should be held accountable. We are to judge each other's earthly actions, we are NOT to judge if one is saved or not. Jeff you can NOT decided if I'm going to heaven or hell. But you can judge me If I act in a way not becoming. Such as if I break the law. Or reprimand me if I mistreat someone. In the context of this forum, if you're Christian you're saved. So to question if someone is a Christian is questioning if they are saved. Me personally, I do not buy into this notion. I believe you can lose your salvation and I believe baptism makes you a new creation and that can not be undone. So I believe it is possible for Christians to go to hell. I think to question if someone is a Christian, or even question them if they are saved is valid. James does it in a round about way in Jam 2:14-26 by telling people to look at what they say they believe compared to what they do. I agree with what you have said in red above but we have to ask the question of salvation based on actions or lack of. A lot of people believe they are Christians (Limey Bob kinda stressed that point) but don't really have faith.... ....all the way back to Lady Kays O.P. ... We're to help our brothers and sisters out....and we are to be the beautiful feet that carry the good news How do we decide which is which? Edited May 25, 2017 by Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 41 minutes ago, daughterofGrace said: I'm big on defining terms. Therefore, before we can even discuss whether we think someone is a Christian or not, we have to define just what it is to be one. I put it this way: A Christian is someone who is born-again (spirit brought alive in Christ) and who has entered, by faith, into a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit. That's it. That's what a Christian is. As such, he/she recognizes that Christ is the second person of the Triune Godhead, that he was born of a virgin and that, as God Incarnate, he died on the cross to atone for the sins of humankind, but rose from the dead three days later. He is currently seated at the right hand of God and will return at a time unknown to us. In other words, a true Christian is going to profess orthodox Christianity. He or she will espouse the above primary doctrines. I have found that the most obvious way of telling whether someone really is born-again and Spirit-filled and in a relationship with Jesus is how they think of Christ. If they get Jesus wrong, then they can't be Christians or they would know who he is. And there are, of course, people claiming to be Christians who do get Jesus wrong. The Mormons come to mind first and foremost. Additionally, there are cultural Christians, that is, people who grow up in a culture based on a Judeo-Christian foundation. And there are nominal Christians, people who attend church and consider their participation in that church as what it means to be a Christian. In these cases, they aren't really Christians because there is no relationship, no rebirth, no infilling of the Holy Spirit. A true Christian should enter into a life-long process of sanctification upon conversion, empowered and guided by the Holy Spirit. The goal is to become like Jesus. But I fully realize that some believers might not know anything about that because of the churches they attend. I say that because I attended church for quite a while with the Holy Spirit being the "silent partner" in the Christian life. The denomination I was raised in didn't teach about the Holy Spirit, about sanctification, etc. I had to learn it as an adult much later in a different denomination altogether. I always say there are no perfect Christians, only Christians in the process of being perfected. And yes, sometimes we can make such a mess that people question whether we really do know God. But at that point, confession and genuine repentance are the signs that we love and follow Christ. But the bottom line is this: Only God can see right into our hearts and that's where the true identity of us all rests. what she said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,822 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,751 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 The Devil knows the redeemed of JESUS CHRIST, the Devil knows that they are redeemed not by their good works, or to obedience to living and walking in the commandments, even in the commandments of LOVE. The Devil knows how JESUS CHRIST redeemed those who were his prisoners and his captives, from the beginning of world of mankind, The Devil knows that Jesus Christ had to die in obedience to God, so he can take away his prisoners from him, those who believed in him. Only on the principal of faith, Sometimes we act in way that we want to Judge JESUS CHRIST, who redeemed those who have faith in him, We are under the blood of Jesus Christ, or redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, the very moment we believe. Unless someone knows some other way. Make sure you believe in Jesus Christ till the moment you die. Jesus Christ was required to live in full obedience to God, not us. PS Jesus is our peace with God. Do not preach another Gospel, like Paul said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,411 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,507 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mike 2 said: I think if Lady Kay (or any of us for that matter) were to believe that cliche she may miss out on an opportunity to help steer someone closer to God. Your post points are taken. If we are to look at examples right here at worthy, we see some saying [using an example] Catholics are not Christians because of their doctrines other than the Bible, while Catholics would say, don't we believe in the points of salvation that protestants do. So, then who is correct in their theology and there are apologist for both sides that can present their case. It then becomes a fine line that one must draw to say, well one is in the wrong path. Many here too, read and take the extra Biblical writings as part of their doctrines, and in the depths of their hearts they believe in it. Are they wrong in their take or beliefs, who is to say which is correct. At worthy, the statement is on the 66 books as the inerrant word of God, but many have interpretations of this same book that differs with the mainstream. It can be complicated, especially if you don't know the person well. I am sure many have met other Christians of other denominations and conversations goes back and forth to prove each other point of scripture meaning. At the end of the day, it takes a lot of courage to question a person faith, especially if he is not known to you and sometimes you may be surprised by the answers they respond with. But it is a duty of the believer to carry out the great commission and there will be great opposition along the way. It has to be done with compassion and understanding. Edited May 25, 2017 by warrior12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said: So you are okay with those around you judging your faith based on one incident or one encounter. And not based on your actual faith. Thats your perogative, I disagree and here's why, I'm going back to Ladys example of making a cashier at Walmart cry because it's a great example. Lets say you are doing something for a charity and you are running late and it's crucial that you be on time. But you have to stop at Walmart because you need this widget for the meeting for the Charity. As you pull into the parking lot someone hits your car as they're pulling out and now you are for sure late, have to deal with an accident and you still need that widget. You finally get into Walmart and the line up is long and moving slowly because the cashier is being overly chatty with each customer. You loose you temper and snap at the cashier. Now Im standing in line behind you and just saw the fruit your faith has bore. So I judge you as not being a Christian. So my question to you is, Are you not a Christian at that moment. Are you no longer a Christian because I judged you as not being one. It is scary when I see people using that line about baring fruit. Because people use it to justify their own judgement over someone else. Based on that scenario I laid out, me personally I would think one of two things... that guy is being a jerk or that guy is having a bad day. Those here that say you judge by the fruit they bare, you would have been judged as a non-Christian. First of all, don't put words in my mouth. Second, the person you described as me judging never claimed to me to be a Christian. I don't even know them. Therefore, I wouldn't be making a judgement regarding their faith, nor their fruit. That is where you err when you make assumptions and put words into people's mouths or assume to know their intent by reading something into what is written. Since you addressed me specifically, I will do the same to you. I have noticed that you have a tendency to try and put words into people's mouths and read things into what is written. Instead of trying to interpret what people mean, (me specifically since you addressed me specifically), perhaps you should take things literally. I don't write cryptically and there is no hidden meaning in my words. I say what I mean and mean what I say. So please, in the future, keep me out of you mouth (typing) and your postings. Thank you and have a blessed day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, warrior12 said: Your post points are taken. If we are to look at examples right here at worthy, we see some saying [using an example] Catholics are not Christians because of their doctrines other than the Bible, while Catholics would say, don't we believe in the points of salvation that protestants do. So, then who is correct in their theology and their are apologist for both sides that can present their case. It then becomes a fine line that one must draw to say, well one is in the wrong path. Many here too, read and take the extra Biblical writings as part of their doctrines, and in the depths of their hearts they believe in it. Are they wrong in their take or beliefs, who is to say which is correct. At worthy, the statement is on the 66 books as the inerrant word of God, but many have interpretations of this same book that differs with the mainstream. It can be complicated, especially if you don't know the person well. I am sure many have met other Christians of other denominations and conversations goes back and forth to prove each other point of scripture meaning. At the end of the day, it takes a lot of courage to question a person faith, especially if he is not known to you and sometimes you may be surprised by the answers they respond with. But it is a duty of the believer to carry out the great commission and there will be great opposition along the way. It has to be done with compassion and understanding. I hear you I think that God, in His genius, has made it very simple for everyone when it comes to salvation but we take our theology and cloud that simplicity. Maybe that is a topic for another thread......How simple is salvation? I think it has already been expressed in this thread that there is a difference between salvation and sanctification. Accepting salvation, then working it out are two different things. One doesn't require any theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 "Timothy, a deacon of Mauritania, and Maura his wife, had not been united together by the bands of wedlock above three weeks, when they were separated from each other by the persecution. Timothy, being apprehended, as a Christian, was carried before Arrianus, the governor of Thebais, who, knowing that he had the keeping of the Holy Scriptures, commanded him to deliver them up to be burnt; to which he answered, "Had I children, I would sooner deliver them up to be sacrificed, than part with the Word of God." The governor being much incensed at this reply, ordered his eyes to be put out, with red-hot irons, saying, "The books shall at least be useless to you, for you shall not see to read them." His patience under the operation was so great that the governor grew more exasperated; he, therefore, in order, if possible, to overcome his fortitude, ordered him to be hung up by the feet, with a weight tied about his neck, and a gag in his mouth. In this state, Maura his wife, tenderly urged him for her sake to recant; but, when the gag was taken out of his mouth, instead of consenting to his wife's entreaties, he greatly blamed her mistaken love, and declared his resolution of dying for the faith. The consequence was, that Maura resolved to imitate his courage and fidelity and either to accompany or follow him to glory. The governor, after trying in vain to alter her resolution, ordered her to be tortured, which was executed with great severity. After this, Timothy and Maura were crucified near each other, A.D. 304. " http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox102.htm Example excerpt for comparison : "As you pull into the parking lot someone hits your car as they're pulling out and now you are for sure late, have to deal with an accident and you still need that widget. You finally get into Walmart and the line up is long and moving slowly because the cashier is being overly chatty with each customer. You loose you temper and snap at the cashier. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 That's not my quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said: That's not my quote. Corrected it. (quote function attributed it) .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,029 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,770 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2017 LoL At 70 years old I have learned that it really doesn't make a twit whether any of you think I am saved or not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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