We Are Told Not To Question Someone's Faith But...

[other one]

1 hour ago, LadyKay said:

Okay I can accept that. As I do question everything anyway. 

so do i but have been wrong enough to not want to embarrass myself saying so a lot of the time.....      I think a lot of people will be shocked to see some of those who they meet in heaven, and just as shocked at some who are missing. 

[ricky]

1 hour ago, BobRyan said:

doctrine can be accepted or rejected based on testing sola-scriptura without claiming that the person who is mistaken on the point - is also evil or lost.

I was wanting to post something along those lines, but you beat me too it. I think you can be a Christian and have errant doctrine, and that needs to be corrected, but too often instead of loving correction, someone faces condemnation.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 hours ago, LadyKay said:

you just made the cashier at Wal Mart cry

This yes!! People should be held accountable. 

But because someone is a jerk to a cashier suddenly you want to question if they are really a Christian. That's a pretty steep standard to live up to. Are you nice and Christian 100% of the time to 100% of everyone you come in contact with??

what if you were having a bad day and say your thoughts were on what was causing that bad day and you snap at someone or are short with them. Is that reflective of who you are?

I agree, there are those that are culturally Christian. Being Catholic it drives me nuts when someone says they are Catholic and follow it up with "and I support abortion" or "I support gay marriage". Drives me NUTS because the Church OPPOSES both those things. But if they were baptized Catholic than yes they are Catholic. Not a very good Catholic and one that is causing scandal.

same applies. They may not be witnessing well to those around them but it doesn't suddenly take away from who they are. You can't say your a new creation until you make a cashier cry than you're no longer a new creation. You're kicked out of Christianity. 

One last thing to ponder. Are you with 100% of Christians 100% of the time? So why would you judge someone's entire faith on one action or what appears to be a pattern of behaviour? Maybe that person that made the cashier cry got into his/her car and realizing what they did wept and asked God to forgive their sharpe tongue? Or someone that appears to be a habitual sinner, how do you know they don't pray every night for God to give them the strength to avoid that sin tomorrow and to forgive them. 

We should be encouraging and not judging. Judging is left to God. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Judas Machabeus

[PlanetChee]

How did Jesus Christ behave? 

Everyone of us is less than able to stand side by side with his perfection. Are we to boast ourselves greater than he when we think to ask how fit, qualified, anointed, we are to judge the sons and daughters of his Father? 

Look to the example set by that which asks why can I not judge you? And by that standard example shall they be judged. All of us qualified for being weighed and measured by what? Others ideal? Are they living that? When they think to judge another?

How did Jesus Christ behave? When we say we are Christ-like=Christian, are we upholding a name of a savior? Or a standard for ourselves? 

 

 

[simplejeff]

Remember being a member of a club on earth and even doing the initiation of an earthly group does not a true Christian make.

YHWH'S STANDARD is much much higher than man's - His Word says that if someone even harbors a lustful thought towards a cashier,  or calls them 'you fool' , or is angry at them without cause,    they are in danger of (liable to) hell fire (judgment, true and final)...

[simplejeff]

44 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

We should be encouraging and not judging. Judging is left to God. 

Jesus said clearly to His disciples and His audience elsewhere:  "You must be born again" -  not a choice /option.

YHWH in HIS WORD gave judgment (appraisal/ confirmed by His Word/ discernment of right and wrong also)

to the ekklesia (those who He called, chose, set apart,  who are immersed in Jesus) ..

and tells His people to judge with a righteous judgment, as one with the Father in heaven knowing/sharing His Judgment,  not as men judge.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

11 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Jesus said clearly to His disciples and His audience elsewhere:  "You must be born again" -  not a choice /option.

YHWH in HIS WORD gave judgment (appraisal/ confirmed by His Word/ discernment of right and wrong also)

to the ekklesia (those who He called, chose, set apart,  who are immersed in Jesus) ..

and tells His people to judge with a righteous judgment, as one with the Father in heaven knowing/sharing His Judgment,  not as men judge.

So are you saying that we judge who is saved and who is going to hell?

because if you were being honest that post of mine that you quoted started with:

This yes!! People should be held accountable. 

We are to judge each other's earthly actions, we are NOT to judge if one is saved or not. Jeff you can NOT decided if I'm going to heaven or hell. But you can judge me If I act in a way not becoming. Such as if I break the law. Or reprimand me if I mistreat someone. 

In the context of this forum, if you're Christian you're saved. So to question if someone is a Christian is questioning if they are saved. 

Me personally, I do not buy into this notion. I believe you can lose your salvation and I believe baptism makes you a new creation and that can not be undone. So I believe it is possible for Christians to go to hell. 

[Guest]

As OneLight pointed, scripture tells us that "We will know them by their fruit." I believe that we are to question the faith of someone who claims to be a brother or sister in Christ, but, we are to do it within ourselves, to ourselves. Then we can choose whether to interact with them as a fellow believer or as a non-believer.

Questioning someone's faith is not the same as questioning their doctrine. If they are teaching any other doctrine than Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, then I believe that we are to call them out publically.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

15 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

Questioning someone's faith is not the same as questioning their doctrine.

So you are okay with those around you judging your faith based on one incident or one encounter. And not based on your actual faith. 

Thats your perogative,

I disagree and here's why, I'm going back to Ladys example of making a cashier at Walmart cry because it's a great example. 

Lets say you are doing something for a charity and you are running late and it's crucial that you be on time. But you have to stop at Walmart because you need this widget for the meeting for the Charity. 

As you pull into the parking lot someone hits your car as they're pulling out and now you are for sure late, have to deal with an accident and you still need that widget. 

You finally get into Walmart and the line up is long and moving slowly because the cashier is being overly chatty with each customer. 

You loose you temper and snap at the cashier. 

Now Im standing in line behind you and just saw the fruit your faith has bore. So I judge you as not being a Christian. 

So my question to you is, Are you not a Christian at that moment. Are you no longer a Christian because I judged you as not being one. 

It is scary when I see people using that line about baring fruit. Because people use it to justify their own judgement over someone else. 

Based on that scenario I laid out, me personally I would think one of two things... that guy is being a jerk or that guy is having a bad day. 

Those here that say you judge by the fruit they bare, you would have been judged as a non-Christian.  

Edited May 25, 2017 by Judas Machabeus

[wingnut-]

3 hours ago, LadyKay said:

But people like the KKK and other white supremacy groups say they are Christians. Should I just accept that they are? While we all have short comings I do think that our actions should show us to be what we truly are. It even says in John 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?  So I think John 4:20 would at less be a guide line to go by. 

 

John 13: 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”