Arkansas woman to be banned from Walmart for racist remarks - what?

[Running Gator]

Just now, MorningGlory said:

None of the above applies to what I'm saying.  I know that speech can be curtailed or restricted but I, in the purest sense of the First Amendment, don't like it, don't accept it and it would never stop me from saying anything I felt I had to say no matter where I was.  Most of us have enough sense not to do any of the things you mentioned however.  You're just not getting it, RG. 

You are right, i am not getting it.  I think I am not getting it because the 1st Amendment is very clear who it is dealing with.  The idea that anyone but the government can curtail 1st Amendment rights makes no sense to me since the 1st Amendment only applies to the government. 

In the case in question WalMart did not tell the lady she cannot say what she did, they said she cannot do it in their stores. And if you are against them doing that, then ironically you are now curtailing their 1st Amendment rights. 

Just like at my job there are things I cannot say and keep my job.  They are not curtailing my 1st Amendment rights as I am choosing to not say those words in exchange for a paycheck every two weeks. 

Here is the 1st Amendment for those who might have forgotten who it is addressing.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[MorningGlory]

11 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

You are right, i am not getting it.  I think I am not getting it because the 1st Amendment is very clear who it is dealing with.  The idea that anyone but the government can curtail 1st Amendment rights makes no sense to me since the 1st Amendment only applies to the government. 

In the case in question WalMart did not tell the lady she cannot say what she did, they said she cannot do it in their stores. And if you are against them doing that, then ironically you are now curtailing their 1st Amendment rights. 

Just like at my job there are things I cannot say and keep my job.  They are not curtailing my 1st Amendment rights as I am choosing to not say those words in exchange for a paycheck every two weeks. 

Here is the 1st Amendment for those who might have forgotten who it is addressing.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Seriously? 

[Running Gator]

9 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Seriously? 

100% and I think there is nothing you can say to refute my post.  

 

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Running Gator said:

I belive I am being consistent.  My argument was that society sets the words that are "profane".  WalMart's reaction to this was based upon what society views as acceptable right now. It is my belief that they did not act out of any sort of morality or such, they are not judging the words of the woman as much as the reaction they got from the rest of the society.   Go back in time 40 years and someone saying these things in a WalMart would have been common place and WalMart would not have cared.  

Also, I started my first job just why of 40 years ago and in all those years I have been fired from a job once, and that was WalMart.  My last manager was a weak leader and she was intimidated by the way the associates responded to my leadership so she set out to make my life enough of a living heck that I would quit.  This went on for 6 months with me appealing to the market manager on multiple occasions.  In the end the MM had to choose between the new guy or the established manager and I got fired just after my 2 year mark with the company.  So, I have no allegiance to them, I just happen to know how they operate. 

 

I'm not sure how you can argue against your own position and be consistent, but ok lol.  If I am understanding you correctly, you surrender your freedom of speech based on what society determines is acceptable.  For me that will never be the case.

God bless

[Running Gator]

7 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

I'm not sure how you can argue against your own position and be consistent, but ok lol.  If I am understanding you correctly, you surrender your freedom of speech based on what society determines is acceptable.  For me that will never be the case.

God bless

I am not arguing against my own position, that is just incorrect.

You surrender your freedom of speech on this forum based on what it determines to be acceptable. 

If you have ever had a job you surrendered your freedom of speech while working based on what society determines is acceptable. 

There is a certain irony with one of the people tasked with controlling what is said on this forum thinking it is wrong to surrender our freedom of speech at times 

[ayin jade]

6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

I'm not a fan of Walmart, but I assure you this is about freedom of speech.  If Best Buy or Home Depot had done this I would be saying the same thing except I wouldn't be able to point to all the same past transgressions that Walmart has against them.

 

 

If she said something they didn't like inside their stores it would be a permissible action according to your position.  So where does it stop?  And when does it become applied to something you might feel you have the right to say?  And as I pointed out in the last post, the government has already set a precedent in regards to private places and their rights under law.  Do you expect them to speak on this woman's behalf?

So a private business does not have the right to decide who they will allow in? It is acceptable for someone to force themselves in to a private enterprise? Lets carry this further. Does that mean that you support for instance someone coming in to your store and blasting Christians and you are ok with not having the right to refuse them service? 

Im sure this is a sign of the apocalypse, but I agree with gator. A private business has the right to decline service and ban someone from their store. 

 

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

None of the above applies to what I'm saying.  I know that speech can be curtailed or restricted but I, in the purest sense of the First Amendment, don't like it, don't accept it and it would never stop me from saying anything I felt I had to say no matter where I was.  Most of us have enough sense not to do any of the things you mentioned however.  You're just not getting it, RG. 

Mg, 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In the purest sense of the first amendment, it refers to congress (federal govt) making laws. It does not refer to private businesses like walmart. 

[wingnut-]

7 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

So a private business does not have the right to decide who they will allow in? It is acceptable for someone to force themselves in to a private enterprise? Lets carry this further. Does that mean that you support for instance someone coming in to your store and blasting Christians and you are ok with not having the right to refuse them service? 

Im sure this is a sign of the apocalypse, but I agree with gator. A private business has the right to decline service and ban someone from their store. 

 

 

I said they have the right to have her escorted from the store, but she committed no crime, so a ban is not warranted.  I can tell you that people can say anything that they want to me.  I have been sexually harassed by a female boss, when I went to her boss she sent me to HR, when I went to HR the representative said that they knew her and I just misunderstood.  At any job I have ever had people can say awful things to me, and if I were to repeat them back I would be in trouble.  I am mocked for my beliefs on pretty much a daily basis, so if I owned a business why would I expect anything different lol.

And as I have already pointed out, the government has already set a precedence for not allowing private places to make rules they deem unacceptable.  Bottom line is, society is making a huge mistake in surrendering their freedoms, and sooner than later everyone is gonna realize it but it will be too late.  I guess I just have thicker skin than everyone else.

God bless

[wingnut-]

26 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

I am not arguing against my own position, that is just incorrect.

You surrender your freedom of speech on this forum based on what it determines to be acceptable. 

If you have ever had a job you surrendered your freedom of speech while working based on what society determines is acceptable. 

There is a certain irony with one of the people tasked with controlling what is said on this forum thinking it is wrong to surrender our freedom of speech at times 

 

Well, your position in the other thread revolved around you not allowing others to tell you what was or was not a curse word.  I curtail my freedom of speech out of respect for the rules of anyplace that requires it, but that is still by choice.  As I said, I don't do things or say things if I think they may hurt or offend others.  I don't believe that gives me the right to decide for others what is or is not acceptable.  

I have had lots of jobs, and I can say whatever I want to say.  Others do this towards me all the time, I just choose not to return the favor.  People can say things to me that if I said them back, I would be the only one facing discipline, so it seems the only people losing freedoms are the ones who try to defend them.   I do think people should respect rules and authority, and this site is not vague about those rules, and everyone that joins here agrees to abide by those rules before they can make a single comment in chat or on the forum.  Does Walmart have rules posted when someone enters their store, or do they just make them up as they go along?

God bless

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, ayin jade said:

Mg, 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In the purest sense of the first amendment, it refers to congress (federal govt) making laws. It does not refer to private businesses like walmart. 

 

What the first amendment is stating is that Congress cannot restrict the freedom of speech, this freedom applies anywhere on American soil.  About 10 years ago here in Michigan there was an incident involving a family.  They took a weekend camping excursion along a popular river here.  On their journey they were in close proximity to a group of young men that continually used profane and explicit language in their presence.  They appealed to the young men to stop on account of their young children that were with them, but the young men refused and got even more vulgar in response.  The couple complained to the DNR who fined the young men.  The young men took their case all the way to the Supreme Court of Michigan (which by the way was majority conservative), and the young men won their case.  The court stated that it was a violation of their 1st amendment right and a 130 year old law was wiped off the books, just like that.

So now here in this state, one can use any kind of language they want in public, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.  If you think it can't happen in your state just wait and see when the opportunity presents itself.  Of course now the federal government has deemed certain words as hate crimes, but they don't apply to everyone equally.  The establishment understands that you can't simply take freedom from people, not without a fight, but if you can get them to give it up themselves, the sky is the limit.  People should be careful what they give away, eventually they are going to take something you don't want to give up and it will be too late.

God bless