Jump to content
IGNORED

False Doctrine Matters?


BobRyan

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

John 8 Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

John 14 "I am the way the Truth and the life"

In your POV - does Truth matter?

We know that a big gap in Truth - can be found between Christianity and Paganism, or Christianity and Hinduism etc.

But we also know that not all Christian denominations agree on all points of doctrine. In theory none of them agree on "all points" of doctrine or the various ones that do  - are redundant/unnecessary.

So then it is common that we hear that "Doctrine does not really matter that much as long as everyone gets along".

And of course - I am all for everyone getting along!!

But still - not so comfortable with "doctrine does not really matter"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  38
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  419
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   204
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline

27 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

John 8 Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

John 14 "I am the way the Truth and the life"

In your POV - does Truth matter?

We know that a big gap in Truth - can be found between Christianity and Paganism, or Christianity and Hinduism etc.

But we also know that not all Christian denominations agree on all points of doctrine. In theory none of them agree on "all points" of doctrine or the various ones that do  - are redundant/unnecessary.

So then it is common that we hear that "Doctrine does not really matter that much as long as everyone gets along".

And of course - I am all for everyone getting along!!

But still - not so comfortable with "doctrine does not really matter"

 

To me it's like Faith and Works.

With True Faith the works follow.

With True Spirit, written word has value.

No matter the exact written word the Relationship with Jesus is what makes ALL matter.

Edited by notsolostsoul
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

5 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

To me it's like Faith and Works.

With True Faith the works follow.

With True Spirit, written word has value.

No matter the exact written word the Relationship with Jesus is what makes ALL matter.

And Jesus said "I AM the way the Truth and the life" John 14. So then "relationship with Jesus" and "rejecting Bible truth" are not compatible in that context

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  711
  • Content Per Day:  0.28
  • Reputation:   266
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  04/12/2017
  • Status:  Offline

Now let's look at two examples -

 

1. Protestant Reformation - these were not "Lutherans" they were "protesting Catholics" saying to their own denomination "Truth matters"... "Bible Truth matters"..

2. The birth of the Christian religion  --- Christian Jews (Apostles included) were saying to their own denomination "We have found the long awaited for Messiah of scripture" and "Truth matters even when tradition and church leadership reject it"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Judas Machabeus
7 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Now let's look at two examples -

 

1. Protestant Reformation - these were not "Lutherans" they were "protesting Catholics" saying to their own denomination "Truth matters"... "Bible Truth matters"..

2. The birth of the Christian religion  --- Christian Jews (Apostles included) were saying to their own denomination "We have found the long awaited for Messiah of scripture" and "Truth matters even when tradition and church leadership reject it"

Very interesting point of view. Never looked at it that way before. 

Truth matters and it matters very much. This is why I don't understand how Protestantism declares to have the truth when non of them can agree on what that truth is. Thus you end up with tens of thousands of divisions. You end up with people staying home with their bibles and not worshipping with others. 

Jesus was the truth. The Apostles had the one truth, one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Protestantism is thousands of variations of that one truth. It's a man made interpitation declared to be the truth. 

I often hear that all you need is scripture. Sola scriptura!!! The problem isn't scriputre it's man and mans ability to interpit scriputre. Scriputre itself tells us that scriputre is hard to understand. It also tells us that we need someone qualified to interpit it. 

Jesus left his authority with the Aposltes and they passed it on to their successors. These are the men that have the authority to properly interpit scriputre. Not each individual person; we are like the Ethiopian:

Catholic Study Bible

Acts 8:31

31 And he said, "How can I, unless some one guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Jesus built a Church and left his authority with that Church and sent the Holy Spirit to guide that Church. He certainly didn't not abandon his people for 1400 years and left them to be lead to hell by false teachings. Protestantism has taken "unless someone guides me" and changed it to "I will guide myself". How many times have people said that they'll be guided by the spirit? That's how they know what truth is. Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenic? How can it lead one person to one truth and another person to a different truth?

There is one truth and that's Jesus Christ.

 

Edited by Judas Machabeus
Fixed spelling and autocorrect as always
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  27
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  327
  • Content Per Day:  0.13
  • Reputation:   172
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  03/30/2017
  • Status:  Offline

On 2017-5-26 at 11:07 PM, BobRyan said:

John 8 Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

John 14 "I am the way the Truth and the life"

In your POV - does Truth matter?

We know that a big gap in Truth - can be found between Christianity and Paganism, or Christianity and Hinduism etc.

But we also know that not all Christian denominations agree on all points of doctrine. In theory none of them agree on "all points" of doctrine or the various ones that do  - are redundant/unnecessary.

So then it is common that we hear that "Doctrine does not really matter that much as long as everyone gets along".

And of course - I am all for everyone getting along!!

But still - not so comfortable with "doctrine does not really matter"

 

If we could effectively save ourselves, though our own good works, or if we could attempt to get ourselves saved within some sacramental system, where we co-operate together with God and work together with him, in order to then produce (or get) salvation through some sacrament such as Roman Catholic Mass or Water Baptism, then doctrine wouldn't be particularly important, as we could "get saved" (i.e. justified) without really knowing who Christ is or what he did for us upon the cross in together with the Father and Holy Spirit, securing the New Covenant! This is why in Hinduism, the New Age religions and "Christian" cults such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism, what you do yourself, in order to then attempt to get yourself saved (justified) or at least spiritually illuminated, is what is really important, and not doctrine, for doctrine (about God) merely outlines and describes  in detail what God alone has to justify us (if he alone saves us).  

 

However, if justification (that is a legal declaration that we are not guilty of sin) is entirely a gift from God, and we cannot work for it, or even co-operate with God in order to thereby produce justification i.e. Romans 4:5  ... where only the ungodly person, who DOES NOT WORK (for salvation), is declared righteous, then doctrine is of vital importance, as such doctrine describes the God who apart from our own human works, saves (justifies) us entirely on his own. But because such doctrine now concerns the person and work of God himself, who he is, and what he has done to save us from our sins, and because we cannot work with him, in order to get ourselves justified, therefore doctrine now becomes something of vital importance,  as it's about he who alone saves us and our correct understanding of him. And as the dual imputation of Christ's righteousness to us, and of our sins to Christ (by the Holy Spirit), at justification is dependent upon our faith (trusting), in Christ. Therefore to have an incorrect view of either the Trinity, or Christ, will result in our exercising faith in a false Jesus Christ, not the Jesus Christ who is presented to us in the Scriptures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  54
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,370
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

17 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Jesus left his authority with the Aposltes and they passed it on to their successors. These are the men that have the authority to properly interpit scriputre. Not each individual person; we are like the Ethiopian:

Your post reply is correct, but to the Catholic standard and teachings, not to the protestant Bible teachings as scripture states clearly below.

1 John 2   King James Version (KJV)

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

A Christian life's journey is what it is, a journey.   He starts out as a babe drinking milk and as he progresses by prayer, meditation, hearing the gospel, reading the word and the Holy Spirit gifts and teaching.  If he is truly marching as a soldier in the kingdom of Christ, then, yes there would be obstacles, but he would not be bogged down by things that are hard for him to understand at the moment, but presses on seeking and searching out truth.

Proverbs 23   King James Version (KJV)

23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  54
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,370
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

13 hours ago, BobRyan said:

John 8 Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

John 14 "I am the way the Truth and the life"

In your POV - does Truth matter?

We know that a big gap in Truth - can be found between Christianity and Paganism, or Christianity and Hinduism etc.

But we also know that not all Christian denominations agree on all points of doctrine. In theory none of them agree on "all points" of doctrine or the various ones that do  - are redundant/unnecessary.

So then it is common that we hear that "Doctrine does not really matter that much as long as everyone gets along".

And of course - I am all for everyone getting along!!

But still - not so comfortable with "doctrine does not really matter"

 

If doctrine does not matter then there is not standard .   Doctrine is the measure by which truth is evaluated.  Yes, scripture can be presented in many different ways and interpretations are many, but at the end of the day, it is you the individual that has to make the choice of what road you are  going to take.   The devil is not going to let the Christian have an easy walk to paradise, you would have to fight, struggle and battle with elements that does not want you to reach heaven.       The Christian life is one that i have found out as true to scripture filled with  battles and scars .

When you stand for truth and doctrine as revealed in scripture, sure there would be ridicule and opposition ect. But you were told so.     A Christian is never to put off any of the armor that is described in Ephesians 6, or holes are left for truth to be compromised.

Just want to add one more thing here that those who only stand by the word and does not count their experience or those who have encountered spiritual battles as real also.  I emphatically state here, those experiences that i go through are real and verifies scripture also.   I do not share them here, and i don't care what any man say about those, they are what i have encountered and are real as the sun rises every morning.    John Bunyan "Holy War", is an allegory that vividly describes the enemy and his assault on the Christian and to gain control of "Mansoul".   He uses all the methods and schemes to do so . read the book.

 

 1 Peter 4    King James Version (KJV)

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Judas Machabeus
1 hour ago, warrior12 said:

Your post reply is correct, but to the Catholic standard and teachings, not to the protestant Bible teachings as scripture states clearly below.

Yes this is true. 

1 hour ago, warrior12 said:

1 John 2   King James Version (KJV)

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I did not check the context of this verse, so the benifet of the doubt I'll give you

So if this verse means what you say it means than how do you explains the mass division amongst Protestants that all claim to be lead by the Spirit to truth all using the same scriputre (translation variation taken into account). 

Side Bar:

what anointing is being referred to? Protestants don't anoint do they? They proclaim "confess with your lips" not be anointed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  54
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,370
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

25 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I did not check the context of this verse, so the benifet of the doubt I'll give you

Please take the time to do your check and as i about to step out the door.  please post your find.  Here is another version of the verse, anointing is explained a bit.

1 John 2   Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

27 But as for you, the anointing (the sacred appointment, the unction) which you received from Him abides [[o]permanently] in you; [so] then you have no need that anyone should instruct you. But just as His anointing teaches you concerning everything and is true and is no falsehood, so you must abide in (live in, never depart from) Him [being[p]rooted in Him, knit to Him], just as [His anointing] has taught you [to do].

The anointing spoken of here is not a physical as with oil ect, but a spiritual one of the Holy Spirit .  [ Even though, some  do anoint with oil as written in scripture. ]

James 5   King James Version (KJV)

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Edited by warrior12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...