Why was Ham cursed harshly by Noah?

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, HisFirst said:

I'd like some light shed on this plz.

*so Noah is naked and drunk in his tent after drinking wine.

Son Ham has seen this, told his two brothers who then put a blanket over Noah, all the while with their backs toward Noah, so as to not see their dad naked.

However, Noah must have been aware of all this as later on he curses Ham and blesses the two other sons.

 

*Is Hams curse to do with seeing Noah naked?

 

 

Wasn't it Ham's son Canaan that was cursed?

[JohnD]

"seeing the nakedness of thy father" was actually something a bit different than it appears to be.

Leviticus 18:8 (AV)
8 The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness.

And since Canaan was cursed... 

FYI in case there is any question what the old Hebrew expression about uncovering someone's nakedness meant, the NIV translates it thus:

Leviticus 18:8 (NIV84)
8 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

I will put it this way, IF Canaan was the byproduct of this then it would certainly make sense..

 

[JohnD]

No mention of Mrs. Noah anywhere in scripture, BTW. Just saying.

[Fidei Defensor]

18 minutes ago, HisFirst said:

OK, that's interesting FD .

That does shed more light on it for sure.

All that I highlighted is not what anyone wants to talk about in Bible. But it is there to show us two things: 1) what God detests and why, and 2) it proves the Bible is true, if it had been a forgery or cultic book the authors would have omitted all the messy bits (like Book of Mormon did which paints saintly view of Smith and his religion, while the real Joseph Smith was known by a relative of mine who was devout  Christian in person, she said "He was reprobate and lascivious. He was womanizer and created religion that permitted his womanizing," bigamy and polygamy).

A simple apologetics is that Bible contains no facebook approach to facts, there are failures left in the accounts: Noah's son Ham, David and Bathseba, Peter denies Jesus three times, Thomas doubts Jesus' Resurrection, Paul admits he killed Christians before his conversion and talks about his tormentor, Peter and Paul get in dispute over Jews and Greeks, and so on. Other books try to make their saints seem perfect, "St. So and So never gave into temptation, never lied, used rose bushes to curb sinful feelings, and died after doing miracles." Uh.. sounds superhuman. Whereas the Apostles and Patriachs of Old Testament had flaws, but God used them mightily. Only Jesus Christ, our God and Savior was without sin Himself, though tempted He never sinned (Hebrews 4:15, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:22).

I mean take the Apostle Paul. In today's world a murderer doesn't get many second chances, but Paul who was Saul and murder of Christians became the most prolific writer of New Testament and reached so many for Christ. A true redemptive story, which has the flaws and the faith.

[simplejeff]

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

No mention of Mrs. Noah anywhere in scripture, BTW. Just saying.

Genesis 6:18

 

KJ21

But with thee will I establish My covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou and thy sons, and thy wife and thy sons’ wives with thee.

ASV

But I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.

AMP

But I will establish My covenant (solemn promise, formal agreement) with you; and you shall come into the ark—you and your [three] sons and your wife, and your sons’ wives with you.

AMPC

But I will establish My covenant (promise, pledge) with you, and you shall come into the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

BRG

But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.

CSB

But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark with your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives.

CEB

But I will set up my covenant with you. You will go into the ark together with your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives.

CJB

But I will establish my covenant with you; you will come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

 

KJV
And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

[JohnD]

9 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Genesis 6:18

 

KJ21

But with thee will I establish My covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou and thy sons, and thy wife and thy sons’ wives with thee.

ASV

But I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.

AMP

But I will establish My covenant (solemn promise, formal agreement) with you; and you shall come into the ark—you and your [three] sons and your wife, and your sons’ wives with you.

AMPC

But I will establish My covenant (promise, pledge) with you, and you shall come into the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

BRG

But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.

CSB

But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark with your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives.

CEB

But I will set up my covenant with you. You will go into the ark together with your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives.

CJB

But I will establish my covenant with you; you will come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

 

KJV
And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

And her name was... (which was my actual point) ?

BTW... is THIS the only thing you got out of what was posted?

And aren't you Simply Looking For a Fight?

[HisFirst]

1 hour ago, Fidei Defensor said:

All that I highlighted is not what anyone wants to talk about in Bible. But it is there to show us two things: 1) what God detests and why, and 2) it proves the Bible is true, if it had been a forgery or cultic book the authors would have omitted all the messy bits (like Book of Mormon did which paints saintly view of Smith and his religion, while the real Joseph Smith was known by a relative of mine who was devout  Christian in person, she said "He was reprobate and lascivious. He was womanizer and created religion that permitted his womanizing," bigamy and polygamy).

A simple apologetics is that Bible contains no facebook approach to facts, there are failures left in the accounts: Noah's son Ham, David and Bathseba, Peter denies Jesus three times, Thomas doubts Jesus' Resurrection, Paul admits he killed Christians before his conversion and talks about his tormentor, Peter and Paul get in dispute over Jews and Greeks, and so on. Other books try to make their saints seem perfect, "St. So and So never gave into temptation, never lied, used rose bushes to curb sinful feelings, and died after doing miracles." Uh.. sounds superhuman. Whereas the Apostles and Patriachs of Old Testament had flaws, but God used them mightily. Only Jesus Christ, our God and Savior was without sin Himself, though tempted He never sinned (Hebrews 4:15, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:22).

I mean take the Apostle Paul. In today's world a murderer doesn't get many second chances, but Paul who was Saul and murder of Christians became the most prolific writer of New Testament and reached so many for Christ. A true redemptive story, which has the flaws and the faith.

Interesting, thanks FD for posting all that.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, HisFirst said:

Interesting, thanks FD for posting all that.

No problem, I enjoy sharing food for thought.

[Guest Teditis]

Who names a kid "Ham" anyway?

[HisFirst]

2 hours ago, Teditis said:

Who names a kid "Ham" anyway?

Lol! Noah liked it

Ham=heat, hot.

Edited May 27, 2017 by HisFirst