Why was Ham cursed harshly by Noah?

[HisFirst]

I'd like some light shed on this plz.

*so Noah is naked and drunk in his tent after drinking wine.

Son Ham has seen this, told his two brothers who then put a blanket over Noah, all the while with their backs toward Noah, so as to not see their dad naked.

However, Noah must have been aware of all this as later on he curses Ham and blesses the two other sons.

 

*Is Hams curse to do with seeing Noah naked?

 

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by HisFirst

[HisFirst]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I'd say more out of disrespect of parents.

There's not much info given in this event but a genuine question, how do we know Ham was being  disrespectful?

[HisFirst]

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Uncovering his father's nakedness is similar or a type of exposing one's faults. It probably wasn't the first time.

That's interesting Yowm.

You have to admit though, cursing a child is a big thing.(I know Ham was an adult child).

Edited May 26, 2017 by HisFirst

[HisFirst]

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Later of course, God made it crystal clear about the seriousness of dishonoring one's parents.

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
(Deu 21:18-21)

Quick! Someone call the ACLU. LOL

 

I understand that and do agree with respect etc for parents.

We aren't given the motivation behind Hams action, only the outcome.

So do you think the above versus give us an insight to Hams character?

Edited May 26, 2017 by HisFirst

[HisFirst]

28 minutes ago, Yowm said:

No, neither do I know his motivation. But poor behavior doesn't usually spring up overnight, so it is my hunch he had been disrespectful for some time.

Maybe Dobson would say Noah didn't spend enough quality time with Ham while building the arc LOL. dunno.

Edited May 27, 2017 by HisFirst

[HisFirst]

However...I guess calling someone an idiot etc is cursing ?

 

Then I'm guilty.

[Fidei Defensor]

Its because Ham had homosexual and perhaps worse sexual tendencies. God had just destroyed the world with flood because mankind had become so depraved it was having sex with angels and begetting children, "In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites (Nephilim) lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times. [Heraclius, Thor and etc] The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. ⁶ So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart. And the Lord said, “I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing—all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them.” ⁸ But Noah found favor with the Lord." (Genesis 6:4-10).

We are told by the Apostle Paul in retrospective what people became like after fall, "For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. ²¹ Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. ²² Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. ²³ And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. ²⁴ So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. ²⁵ They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. ²⁶ That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. ²⁷ And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. ²⁹ Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. ³⁰ They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents." (Romans 1:20-30).

[HisFirst]

4 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Its because Ham had homosexual and perhaps worse sexual tendencies. 

What brought you to this conclusion specifically?

[Fidei Defensor]

Just now, HisFirst said:

What brought you to this conclusion specifically?

The facts of the times as I laid out in my other post you are quoting from. Ham was born in age when sons of god (angels) where having relations with women and all kinds of crazy sexual urges were reigning. It thus seems likely that Noah reacted to Ham because he saw Ham staring or gaulking, "Genesis 9:22. And Ham saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren — To have seen it accidentally and involuntarily would not have been a crime. But he pleased himself with the sight. And he told his brethren without — In the street, as the word is, in a scornful, deriding manner." (Benson Commentary).

It also seem possible that Ham did fondle his father, "When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him." (Genesis 9:24). Other commentators think this is because Ham told his brothers about Noah to shame him, but that doesn't seem likely because Noah wakes up to fact that his other sons have clothed him and realizes Ham has done something to him. This is not without precedence, afteral Lot's daughters did something horrible as well, having sex with their father (Genesis 19:31-35). If that could happen later with Lot, the brother of Abraham, how much more so with Ham and Noah during period of great sexual rebellion (Genesis 6:4-6).

Another example is something horrible in Temple later, "And He said to me, “Do you see this, son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they have committed here, that they have filled the land with violence and provoked Me repeatedly? For behold, they are putting the twig to their nose." (Ezekiel 8:17). That twig or stick to nose is euphemism back then for a male genital, just as the word know was sex, "The man knew Eve his wife. She conceived, and gave birth to Cain, and said, "I have gotten a man with the LORD's help." (Genesis 4:1).

"Saw" (to see) in the verse about Ham can take many meanings:

"access (1), advisers* (2), appear (21), appeared (43), appears (4), approve (2), became aware (1), became visible (1), become visible (1), behold (9), choice (1), consider (13), considered (1), display (1), displayed (1), distinguish (1), encountered (1), enjoy (1), enjoy* (3), examined (1), experience (1), exposed (1), face* (2), faced* (2), find (1), gaze (2), give attention (1), gloat (2), heed (1), indeed look (1), keep on looking (1), look (71), looked (59), looked and saw (1), looking (5), looks (11), make an inspection (2), make me see (1), makes an inspection (1), noticed (1), observe (1), observed (5), observing (1), perceive (2), perceived (2), presents (1), provide (3), provided (2), public (1), regard (2), regarded (2), regards (1), remained alive (1), saw (310), search (1), see (410), see as a sees (1), see plainly (1), seeing (5), seemed (1), seen (153), sees (32), select (1), selected (1), show (24), showed (15), shown (19), shows (1), sleep* (1), stare (2), staring (1), supervise (1), surely seen (1), take into consideration (1), take heed (1), tell (1), think (1), understand (1), view (1), vision (1), visit (1), watch (2)." (Strong's Concordance).

[HisFirst]

4 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

The facts of the times as I laid out in my other post you are quoting from. Ham was born in age when sons of god (angels) where having relations with women and all kinds of crazy sexual urges were reigning. It thus seems likely that Noah reacted to Ham because he saw Ham staring or gaulking, "Genesis 9:22. And Ham saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren — To have seen it accidentally and involuntarily would not have been a crime. But he pleased himself with the sight. And he told his brethren without — In the street, as the word is, in a scornful, deriding manner." (Benson Commentary).

It also seem possible that Ham did fondle his father, "When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him." (Genesis 9:24). Other commentators think this is because Ham told his brothers about Noah to shame him, but that doesn't seem likely because Noah wakes up to fact that his other sons have clothed him and realizes Ham has done something to him. This is not without precedence, afteral Lot's daughters did something horrible as well, having sex with their father (Genesis 19:31-35). If that could happen later with Lot, the brother of Abraham, how much more so with Ham and Noah during period of great sexual rebellion (Genesis 6:4-6).

Another example is something horrible in Temple later, "And He said to me, “Do you see this, son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they have committed here, that they have filled the land with violence and provoked Me repeatedly? For behold, they are putting the twig to their nose." (Ezekiel 8:17). That twig or stick to nose is euphemism back then for a male genital, just as the word know was sex, "The man knew Eve his wife. She conceived, and gave birth to Cain, and said, "I have gotten a man with the LORD's help." (Genesis 4:1).

"Saw" (to see) in the verse about Ham can take many meanings:

"access (1), advisers* (2), appear (21), appeared (43), appears (4), approve (2), became aware (1), became visible (1), become visible (1), behold (9), choice (1), consider (13), considered (1), display (1), displayed (1), distinguish (1), encountered (1), enjoy (1), enjoy* (3), examined (1), experience (1), exposed (1), face* (2), faced* (2), find (1), gaze (2), give attention (1), gloat (2), heed (1), indeed look (1), keep on looking (1), look (71), looked (59), looked and saw (1), looking (5), looks (11), make an inspection (2), make me see (1), makes an inspection (1), noticed (1), observe (1), observed (5), observing (1), perceive (2), perceived (2), presents (1), provide (3), provided (2), public (1), regard (2), regarded (2), regards (1), remained alive (1), saw (310), search (1), see (410), see as a sees (1), see plainly (1), seeing (5), seemed (1), seen (153), sees (32), select (1), selected (1), show (24), showed (15), shown (19), shows (1), sleep* (1), stare (2), staring (1), supervise (1), surely seen (1), take into consideration (1), take heed (1), tell (1), think (1), understand (1), view (1), vision (1), visit (1), watch (2)." (Strong's Concordance).

OK, that's interesting FD .

That does shed more light on it for sure.