500th anniv of Protestant Reformation. Luther or Pope Francis? Which is right?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

this is a incorrect statement when it has doctrine called ex cathedra...

1. ex ca·the·dra

   [ˌeks kəˈTHēdrə]
   ADVERB

   1. with the full authority of office (especially of the pope's infallibility as defined in Roman Catholic doctrine):

      "for an encyclical to be infallible the pope must speak ex cathedra"
       

      Do you not know your leadership believes this? You really should know what your following! It appears your doing so blindly?

Lol hilarious. 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

4 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

With the exception of Judas and a few other knowledgeable catholics on this forum, I, in MY experience, talking/witnessing to catholics, my relatives, friends, and strangers, realize that I have not met ONE, nor know one catholic, who has the scriptural knowledge, of any of my young grandchildren, especially concerning salvation. These are simply every day average working class people, going through their every day struggles, and occasionally paying tribute to the holy mother church. About the only thing they can tell me about their church and it's doctrine is what they have heard on/in the media about what el popo has announced lately to the press. It's really a shame. Don't freak out. I love all those hard headed/uninformed catholics. (I was one, till the truth set me free)     And I won't let up. 

There are Catholics ignorant of their faith. I wouldn't argue with that, but the same can be said about any faith tradition. My driving instructor told me he was Muslim, than promptly said he doesn't go to the mosque. I just thought to myself well than what makes you a Muslim than?!?

For too many faiths it is simply a cultural thing that people were born into and in generations gone by you had to be "something" so they identify as their parents faith regardless if they have any faith or not. 

[Limey_Bob]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

Not true. There always has been and always will be a remnant of true believers. Jesus Christ will eventually win when He comes and destroys those who have set up pseudo mediators between Him and mankind.

 

Oh course Christ will ultimately win, but you have deliberately missed my point, the Protestant reformation is virtually over here in Plymouth. The majority of Evangelicals in my locality cannot define the Trinity in a creedal manner, accurately, neither can they explain the person and work of Christ, or explain the New Covenant re Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. Few believers have the courage to venture out of their churches and proclaim (kerugma) the message of the gospel, religion is done in safe-zones within church buildings and it does not impact the impoverished lives of the church building attenders, yet alone the non-believers in the surrounding areas. I've heard that Christianity is growing in leaps and bounds in China, if so great, fantastic, but in my part of the UK, evangelicalism is mostly dead, and many evangelicals are spineless cowards, too weak and puny to challenge secular British society.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

 

...but true.

Not even close. 

He looked up excommunication to explain infallibility.

How about looking up infallibility to define infallibility. Call me crazy.

I want to know what apples are so I'm going to look up oranges. Yep sounds about right. Lol

 

[Willa]

14 hours ago, Yowm said:

I was in the Lutheran Church for a number of years and what I saw were basically two camps.

1. those that held loosely to Scripture, held to high church liturgy, emphasized Church politics etc., these had a tendency to go East or Rome.

2. those that held to Scripture and took seriously the Book of Concord (teachings of Luther, Melancthon and Chemnitz)...these would not and will not compromise with Rome even today.

I saw that as well.  When the majority intermittent attenders came to the congregational meeting to call a new pastor, they elected a man who admitted to not believing the Bible or having a personal relationship with Christ.  I left.  That was the American Lutheran Church which has now gone toward apostasy.  Those not attached to Christ and His word will not produce good fruit and will be burned.  Hopefully the Missouri and Wisconsin synods will remain attached to the Scriptures as well as the Book of Concord.  

[Limey_Bob]

8 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Oh I hear ya and agree for the most part except maybe on the Trinity. The Trinity was not a distinguishing mark of the Reformation as both Prots and Catholics agreed on that point.

Yowm, here in Plymouth I have been told over and OVER again that Jesus is the Father, or that God is three separate spirits / Gods etc, it is the attenders of Trinitaruian Churches, particularly Baptist and Pentecostal who have told me this. These people might use the words;  "I am a Trinitarian" but their definition of the Trinity when questioned is distinctly anti-Trinitarian, and when I have pointed this out to more senior leaders, I am made to be the enemy and doctrine is not discussed. I repeat, most people attending evangelical Churches are functionally non-Trinitarian, and whatever the scholars and creeds might say, the reality is that the misdefinitions of the Trinity here in many churches, is really no better than that of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.

[Limey_Bob]

Just now, Limey_Bob said:

Yowm, here in Plymouth I have been told over and OVER again that Jesus is the Father, or that God is three separate spirits / Gods etc, it is the attenders of Trinitaruian Churches, particularly Baptist and Pentecostal who have told me this. These people might use the words;  "I am a Trinitarian" but their definition of the Trinity when questioned is distinctly anti-Trinitarian, (usually modalist or tri-theist), and when I have pointed this out to more senior leaders, I am made to be the enemy and doctrine is not discussed. I repeat, most people attending evangelical Churches are functionally non-Trinitarian, and whatever the scholars and creeds might say, the reality is that the misdefinitions of the Trinity here in many churches, is really no better than that of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.

 

[Limey_Bob]

22 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Sure, the influence of new age mysticism and cults has affected many 'Christians' view of the Trinity, I'm just saying that that was not the issue 500 years ago with Rome. Yes, there needs to be a move to get back to the basics but EEEKS, that would require doctrinal study, something many are allergic to.

Yowm, there isn't going to be a movement back to the Bible (unless God moves in the miraculous), most of this heresy isn't from the new Age Movement, its directly taken from Christian TV such as TBN and GOD TV, as well as the popular books such as the "left behind" junk and Rick Warren's Purpose Driven rubbish. This nonsense influences people far more than the Bible, because most people today don't study the Bible seriously.

[Fidei Defensor]

To me the Reformation of 1517-1648 A.D. accomplished its goal: getting Scripture to the masses (everyone). This should be celebrated, that Biblical Dark Ages was over, now no longer did Monks (very few of them could read Latin and the Scriptures) and literate clergy have a monopoly on Scriptures, even acting like Pharisees and hiding its knowledge, ""What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people's faces. You won't go in yourselves, and you don't let others enter either," (Matthew 23:13). In addition these clergy and scholastics pursued not the Truth (John 14:6) but instead were content to pursue everything else, "always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth," (2 Timothy 3:7), and in addition their godliness was all for show and power, "They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!" (2 Timothy 3:5).

 

[Fidei Defensor]

13 minutes ago, Yowm said:

What's sad now is that bibles can be found in thrift stores for 50 cents and most Christians have at least 3 bibles hanging out around the house but seldom read. There are Christians in persecuted lands that would give an arm and a leg for that 50 cent bible on the thrift store shelf.

Indeed, Biblical illiteracy is turning into an epidemic and even pandemic, even though we have unlimited access to it with Bible Apps, the Internet, and more. It is alarming, and I think illiteracy goes hand and hand  with this rediscovery of the erroneous Desert Fathers, Apostolic Fathers (not apostles), and church histories that propaganda for the RCC and EOC. It is ironic, at the dawn of 500th anniversary of the Reformation, more and more reformed believers are flocking to the RCC and EOC which are Prima Scriptura and still in Dark Ages of Biblicalism.